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Another Trelagism/Trellism/Words of Founding idea.


ParadoxicalZen

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Right, so this idea has been rattling around in the noggin for a while (and i haven't seen anything similar around) and i could use some help and other perspectives. 

 

So one thing has been bugging me about the pre-TFE Trelagism and post-FA Trellism; how on earth could such a huge deviation in doctrine happen in just a relatively small amount of time, especially when society was just re-forming, so they'd most likely be resistant to a change in belief structure with everything else around them being hectic. (this is up for debate but it isn't that relevant to the speculation idea). I reckon a force/person/organisation changed it for nefarious purposes.

 

We know that Saze gave Spook all the information from his copperminds in the form of hundreds/thousands of books. We also know these books later became known as the Words of Founding but I've yet to find any reference as to what they are transcribed in or where they are primarily located (my personal headcanon is they are near Vin and Elend's statues in the Field of Rebirth and would be written in metal/stone but if some can either correct or corroborate, feel free).

 

My idea is that, in time, the Words were transcribed into either stone/metal, mostly to officiate and commemorate them, like we do with memorial monuments and the like but, before they were done so, the words were changed before transcription. The reason i would go with metal is because Spook was the one that found out about that fact. The only person who would know the difference between the actual knowledge and the altered one would be Sazed but if they were to be transcribed in metal, Saze would be none the wiser. Now...as to who could/can/would do such a thing, well..

 

(This would be cleared up if could ask Brandon if the Words have been; a) transcribed in a central/localised space and; B) transcribed into metal at any point between HoA and AoL

 

So yeah thoughts/ideas/critiques

 

 

 

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I like it. It certainly parallels what Ruin did in the original trilogy: altering the words and meaning of a religion to make men (whether Miles or Alendi) do something. Between the two Shards, Preservation couldn't change things, while Ruin could change things quite easily (i.e. all the metalminds of the pre-Ascension Keepers). If a new force was changing the text of the Words of Founding, they might not be as powerful as Ruin, so they would have to use a smaller, barely known religion (as opposed to appropriating Survivorism). Or even if they could change a lot of text, they might be trying to avoid Harmony's attention.

 

Ooh, here's a crazy possibility that just popped into my head: what if Trelagism never made it into the Words of Founding? What if Ruin changed Sazed's metalminds before he was killed, and it's taken this long for his time-bomb, Trellism, to have noticeable results? That way, Harmony wouldn't have noticed the difference between the two religions, because his copperminds didn't have Trelagism anymore?

 

I don't think the Words of Founding would have been transcribed into metal. From the Scadrians' point of view, Sazed gave them Words of Founding, so why would he bother to secretly change the texts on them? But that would still be a good thing to have clarified, if the opportunity arises.

 

SoS spoilers:

The obvious connection is that the mysterious "Trell," the Shard trying to undermine Harmony, would be the one behind changing the religion. That would actually provide a good reason for why he's using that name; he needed a religion to co-opt, and Trelagism happened to be the one he took over. It's begging the question, actually: why is he posing as Trell? Because that's the religion he changed to fit his purposes. He'd call himself something else if he'd taken over a different religion.

 

I think it's also interesting that changing text is another one of Ruin's abilities that Trell appears to have. (Along with speaking into peoples' minds, and creating a god metal that can be used in Hemalurgy to steal both Feruchemy and Allomancy.) I keep wondering: whatever happened to Ruin's extra piece? Even if Trell is another Shard like Autonomy or Odium, they might be using the extra piece of Ruin as a tool to mess with Scadrial.

Edited by Pagerunner
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I like it. It certainly parallels what Ruin did in the original trilogy: altering the words and meaning of a religion to make men (whether Miles or Alendi) do something. Between the two Shards, Preservation couldn't change things, while Ruin could change things quite easily (i.e. all the metalminds of the pre-Ascension Keepers). If a new force was changing the text of the Words of Founding, they might not be as powerful as Ruin, so they would have to use a smaller, barely known religion (as opposed to appropriating Survivorism). Or even if they could change a lot of text, they might be trying to avoid Harmony's attention.

 

It's tricky because we don't actually know what the actual beliefs of Trellism are, as they're not mentioned specifically. 

 

I'm not saying that Saze would change them, only that if someone were to, typically from under any Shard's direction, then it would be easiest to do so whilst they were in paper form, as over time there would no doubt be errors in translation and transcription hence why i'm curious as to whether they were carved in metal at some point, not only as a commemoration for Saze's gift, but to also officiate them. 

 

 

 

SoS spoilers:

The obvious connection is that the mysterious "Trell," the Shard trying to undermine Harmony, would be the one behind changing the religion. That would actually provide a good reason for why he's using that name; he needed a religion to co-opt, and Trelagism happened to be the one he took over. It's begging the question, actually: why is he posing as Trell? Because that's the religion he changed to fit his purposes. He'd call himself something else if he'd taken over a different religion.

 

I think it's also interesting that changing text is another one of Ruin's abilities that Trell appears to have. (Along with speaking into peoples' minds, and creating a god metal that can be used in Hemalurgy to steal both Feruchemy and Allomancy.) I keep wondering: whatever happened to Ruin's extra piece? Even if Trell is another Shard like Autonomy or Odium, they might be using the extra piece of Ruin as a tool to mess with Scadrial.

 

As for who Trell is, I have ideas but am nowhere near certain, although I'm on the it-isn't-Autonomy/Odium train but i understand and can see the logic of other member's theories why it is

Edited by ParadoxSpren
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If they could pick literally any religion, why pick one with two gods (Trell and Nalt)? Why risk being caught out when no one follows/believes in Nalt? This has frustrated me to no end. The lack of Nalt is getting my goat up in a pickle.

Also, Trell has got me thinking. In another thread someone said that, in response to a question about Trell, Brandon Sanderson merely left the clue "Rust and Ruin!" Which connects Trell to rust (ruin, obviously, being Ruin). Now my elaborate, possibly outrageously incorrect hypothesis is that Trell is the shard of change. Rust is the change from metal to metal oxide. That way you have preservation keeping things the same, ruin destroying things, and Trell mixing stuff up. The full collection, as it were. And the god metal he creates appears rusty to the observer. You could, alternatively, argue he is the god of decay, but that seems to close to Ruin for me.

Does anyone have any links to some good discussion on Trell? I've been searching hard to find out as much as I can without major success.

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If they could pick literally any religion, why pick one with two gods (Trell and Nalt)? Why risk being caught out when no one follows/believes in Nalt? This has frustrated me to no end. The lack of Nalt is getting my goat up in a pickle.

Also, Trell has got me thinking. In another thread someone said that, in response to a question about Trell, Brandon Sanderson merely left the clue "Rust and Ruin!" Which connects Trell to rust (ruin, obviously, being Ruin). Now my elaborate, possibly outrageously incorrect hypothesis is that Trell is the shard of change. Rust is the change from metal to metal oxide. That way you have preservation keeping things the same, ruin destroying things, and Trell mixing stuff up. The full collection, as it were. And the god metal he creates appears rusty to the observer. You could, alternatively, argue he is the god of decay, but that seems to close to Ruin for me.

Does anyone have any links to some good discussion on Trell? I've been searching hard to find out as much as I can without major success.

 

Ruin is technically Change/entropy incarnate as Mistborn deals with the whole duality concept about how both ideals/concepts define each other and without one or the other, bad crem happens

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Ruin does at least claim to be the role of change, yes. Plus rust is sort of like ruined metal, no?

 

At any rate, Trell is presumably a hostile shard. It would definitely make sense that trell would try to covertly plant a small group of followers on Scadrial. This is because sazed/harmony holds two shards, and so he probably has more raw power than anybody else in the cosmere, so Trell would need to avoid direct confrontation (hence why Trell would attempt to work covertly through bleeder rather than just counterbalance Sazed's power as an opposing shard).

 

Edit: I noticed the other thread which references "rust and ruin" as a hint. Interesting. Perhaps Trell is a representation of entropy. Entropy is a different sort of change than annihilation, I suppose.

Edited by Drake Marshall
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