Reviving deadspren shardblades?

[Rasarr]

Learning the truth about his Blade would also upset him, I believe. He was treating it as a partner so to learn the Blade probably hates him, likely screams at him each time he summons it and worst using it means torturing it... I wouldn't be surprised if we see him struggling to just summon his Blade, considering he struggled with it back in WoR, it seems a likely continuity.

 

Adolin currently is in an interesting position right now as the only character of import not currently being broken. Where will Brandon take him is entirely up to him, but Adolin remaining a good, normal, solid guy seems boring and in contradiction of what we have glimpsed so far.

 

As for Kaladin, I believe he likely won't be around to voice an opinion on the matter. He would likely disapprove, but he may emotionally emphasized with Adolin as he has been there before.

 

Those have me wondering if Adolin won't be in some way separated from the main ensemble for a while as his breaking happens. No Shallan to comfort him and help him go through; no Renarin to explain him why his sword is screaming at him; no Kaladin to empathize with him and also help him. Certainly something I'd read about. 

[maxal]

Those have me wondering if Adolin won't be in some way separated from the main ensemble for a while as his breaking happens. No Shallan to comfort him and help him go through; no Renarin to explain him why his sword is screaming at him; no Kaladin to empathize with him and also help him. Certainly something I'd read about. 

 

I think he may be "psychologically" separated from them, I doubt he will be "physically" separated from them. He was wandering on his own, removing himself from others, being alone... He may just be Dalinar will too angry at him, Renarin will think Adolin resent him, Shallan will be busy, Kaladin is just not there...

 

All I know about Adolin's future arc is it's a good one readers will enjoy. So what would most readers enjoying his character like to read?

[Dru]

Heh what if adolins breaking was going to be shallan dumping him for bridge boy....

Now I don't really believe exactly that but he is very attached to her and "losing" her might break his "soul" .

Edited January 24, 2016 by Dru

[maxal]

Heh what if adolins breaking was going to be shallan dumping him for bridge boy....

Now I don't really believe exactly that but he is very attached to her and "losing" her might break his "soul" .

 

Could be but it sounds be bit too much as a bad teen movie scenario   I however certainly think hardships within his relationship with Shallan are likely to play a role. 

 

I don't think there will be a sole cause to Adolin crumbling down: more the cracking under too much pressure, each events adding its own until he just can't cope anymore, no matter how solid he appears to be.

[Seerow]

Heh what if adolins breaking was going to be shallan dumping him for bridge boy....

Now I don't really believe exactly that but he is very attached to her and "losing" her might break his "soul" .

 

Seriously, Adolin has been in and out of how many relationships?

 

Yes he likes Shallan, but he's liked all of the hundreds of girls he's courted. If Shallan breaking up with him caused him to break, it would completely shatter my suspension of disbelief.

[Rasarr]

Heh what if adolins breaking was going to be shallan dumping him for bridge boy....

Now I don't really believe exactly that but he is very attached to her and "losing" her might break his "soul" .

 

Please no, this would be the most cliché thing ever... as part of a bigger trauma conga line I could stomach it, but if that was just one thing, against all that's hapenning in the world at this point, I'd call foul on it. 

 

For a speculation, I could see losing a duel as a catalyst for breaking Adolin, or perhaps the final straw. Dueling is his Calling and his life, so if we're supposed to break his soul, we should start with taking it away. Perhaps the blade starts screaming at him as he summons it at the beginning of the duel and, not willing to lose his face in the eyes of all the lighteyes in the audience (not to mention Shallan...), Adolin grits his teeth and decides to go through with the shrieking blade anyway. Seeing how that guy Kaladin caught the sword of (can't remember the name now) reacted to hearing it for just a second, I don't really see Adolin winning under those condition. And I don't think he ever lost a duel, so he likely never learned how to cope with that, not to mention that after such public embarassment (or what  he'd see as one) he'd be unlikely to let people talk with him about it, which would achieve this effect of "psychological" isolation maxal suggested.

 

As to what I would enjoy reading about, I'd cheer if Adolin spent long hours of his separation talking to his blade in some desperate attempt to calm it down and bring it some measure of peace, and finally deciding to break the bond to spare the blade further torture. While breaking the bond, he could say something like promising the blade that he'll remember what happened to it (or something along those lines, no idea how to phrase it), saying the Edgedancers' Ideal's words and thus reviving the Shardblade.

 

...you know, people, we've got to be the only fandom out there that wants to hurt and torture one of their favourite characters... 

Edited January 24, 2016 by Rasarr

[maxal]

Seriously, Adolin has been in and out of how many relationships?

 

Yes he likes Shallan, but he's liked all of the hundreds of girls he's courted. If Shallan breaking up with him caused him to break, it would completely shatter my suspension of disbelief.

 

I think a man can be rejected so many times before it starts to impact his self-esteem. I also disagree he liked the other girls: he didn't. Shallan though... He is crushing on her: that one will hurt if it comes to pass, but it will hardly be the reason why he breaks.

 

I'd call it a weighting factor.

 

 

Please no, this would be the most cliché thing ever... as part of a bigger trauma conga line I could stomach it, but if that was just one thing, against all that's hapenning in the world at this point, I'd call foul on it. 

 

For a speculation, I could see losing a duel as a catalyst for breaking Adolin, or perhaps the final straw. Dueling is his Calling and his life, so if we're supposed to break his soul, we should start with taking it away. Perhaps the blade starts screaming at him as he summons it at the beginning of the duel and, not willing to lose his face in the eyes of all the lighteyes in the audience (not to mention Shallan...), Adolin grits his teeth and decides to go through with the shrieking blade anyway. Seeing how that guy Kaladin caught the sword of (can't remember the name now) reacted to hearing it for just a second, I don't really see Adolin winning under those condition. And I don't think he ever lost a duel, so he likely never learned how to cope with that, not to mention that after such public embarassment (or what  he'd see as one) he'd be unlikely to let people talk with him about it, which would achieve this effect of "psychological" isolation maxal suggested.

 

As to what I would enjoy reading about, I'd cheer if Adolin spent long hours of his separation talking to his blade in some desperate attempt to calm it down and bring it some measure of peace, and finally deciding to break the bond to spare the blade further torture. While breaking the bond, he could say something like promising the blade that he'll remember what happened to it (or something along those lines, no idea how to phrase it), saying the Edgedancers' Ideal's words and thus reviving the Shardblade.

 

...you know, people, we've got to be the only fandom out there that wants to hurt and torture one of their favourite characters... 

 

This actually isn't far from several of the too many potential scenarios I have drafted for Adolin (yeah I know, I need to get a life  I swear I actually have one)...

 

For the longest time I have thought Adolin would lose a duel: too many built-up has been made over him never having lost one. My thoughts have been he would start experiencing problems controlling his Blade: he's already struggled with it once, it isn't far-fetched to think, upon learning of its true nature, he would get cold feet over using it. The duel would be one he'd be forced into, likely as a consequence of him killing Sadeas (though Brandon has to do something with the fact Adolin actually broke an arm near the end of WoR), as opposed to one he chose to enter into. 

 

I believe with all that's happening to him, Adolin won't be able to concentrate or to get into "the zone" as he once was and knowing each trust he does with his Blade is harming it may impede on his fighting abilities. He perhaps loses the Blade during the fight, has trouble summoning it back, something along those lines. I do like the idea of it starting to scream, but this seems to require a working Nahel bond which Adolin doesn't currently have.

 

In the end, he loses, dramatically. Perhaps he loses his Shards even, forced to break the bond to his Blade. Dalinar once said it was the hardest command to make, demanding a high level of concentration: imagine having beaten Adolin trying desperately to unbound his Blade, in the middle of an arena with all eyes on him, but failing at using the command? Imagine judge Istow screaming he has to forfeit the Blade as per dueling laws and starting to call him out on it as it takes too long?

 

I agree he probably never dealt with losing, with his own vulnerability. Already, we see he doubts: he knows he is good and yet he gets ridiculously nervous before easy fights. When he starts losing, he may lose all his confidence. Without his ability to win, can he still have a sense of self-worth?

 

I have no idea how the Blade revival process would work except I am quite sure he needs to first break the bond he has with it in order to create a new one, but I am growing increasingly convinced we are getting this story.

 

As for making Adolin suffer, well, I do want it  Mostly because hardships is what makes characters more endearing: the perfect life hardly ever is interesting to read... Hurt, pain and how one moves through it is what is interesting. So Adolin has to take the plunge in order to rise again: it will make him a stronger character and a stronger man.

[Dru]

Who has Adolin been so far in the books?

-He has been the son of the blackthorn and been trying to live up to his father’s legacy and now standards. He has huge respect for his father.

 

 

-He has been the older brother out of two. He has been the stronger of them supporting his younger brother with his problems and issues.

 

 

-Has been and is an accomplished duelist, he is a professional athlete.

 

-He is betrothed to a beautiful woman that he actually likes a lot, it is his first serious relationship, (maybe second he might have been betrothed before that’s what Shallan is told when she discuss him with someone in the start of WoR I think) even if it was arranged.

 

How is his sittuation now?

 

-His father is now a Bondsmith and a radiant something he at the moment probably feels he can never achieve no matter how much he tries. And this will be one hit on him.

 

-His younger weaker brother is now also a radiant and “stronger/more important them him”, suddenly he is the week one in the family.

 

-I do not think losing a duel will break him, he is professional and even if he loses and have a dip in his confidence he won’t break. Besides the dueling for shards is probably over now so no chance to duel.

 

 

-His betrothed likes him but did she lie to herself that she likes him because she needed him to save her family. Now she is a radiant that saved the army, her brothers are coming to her thanks to the ghostbloods, she no longer needs him. Will her feelings for him change? Will she have time for him? I think there relationship will stagger if not break and this will be an immense hit on him.

 

Even the ex-slave bridge boy is more important than him now which will affect his self-esteem. If the other ex-slaves start becoming radiant and squires then he will lose even more self-esteem.

 

Adolin have gone from the cream deluxe top tier citizen to a “second rate citizen” in a matter of days this must be tuff for him.

 

I believe Adolin will become isolated either by events or isolating himself from the others. He will spend time training recruits while he tries to find his place in this new world. He is very sentimental and I believe that he will spend more time with his blade just talking to it as a way to go thru his problems and keep himself together and when the cup overfills and he actually break there will be a chance for the spren to create the bond.

[Rasarr]

I believe with all that's happening to him, Adolin won't be able to concentrate or to get into "the zone" as he once was and knowing each trust he does with his Blade is harming it may impede on his fighting abilities. He perhaps loses the Blade during the fight, has trouble summoning it back, something along those lines. I do like the idea of it starting to scream, but this seems to require a working Nahel bond which Adolin doesn't currently have.

 

In the end, he loses, dramatically. Perhaps he loses his Shards even, forced to break the bond to his Blade. Dalinar once said it was the hardest command to make, demanding a high level of concentration: imagine having beaten Adolin trying desperately to unbound his Blade, in the middle of an arena with all eyes on him, but failing at using the command? Imagine judge Istow screaming he has to forfeit the Blade as per dueling laws and starting to call him out on it as it takes too long?

 

I agree he probably never dealt with losing, with his own vulnerability. Already, we see he doubts: he knows he is good and yet he gets ridiculously nervous before easy fights. When he starts losing, he may lose all his confidence. Without his ability to win, can he still have a sense of self-worth?

 

Oh gods, just reading about it makes me feel absolutely stressed out. If Brandon really writes something along those lines, this is going to be the most harrowing scene in the book for me, period. Not to say that I don't want to read it, but...  gaaah. 

 

 

(snip)

 

Adolin have gone from the cream deluxe top tier citizen to a “second rate citizen” in a matter of days this must be tuff for him.

 

 

This is a valid point, and one that'll sure weigh on him heavily. I'm wondering whether we're not all just noticing only small parts of what's going to happen - with all that can go wrong, out esteemed author can simply have everything go wrong for Adolin, now can't he?

 

 

-I do not think losing a duel will break him, he is professional and even if he loses and have a dip in his confidence he won’t break. Besides the dueling for shards is probably over now so no chance to duel.

 

Even without Shard-trading, there're still ample opportunities for young, war-like noblemen to come to blows and have to settle in "honourable" manner. And I believe you overestimate Adolin's professionalism somewhat here. Note that Adolin has never lost. Never. Not a single duel. Even if he is a professional - and we see over the course of WoR that he's extremely emotional - he just flat out doesn't have a coping mechanism. Having one requires experience, and he's never had one, so there was no chance for his psyche to learn how to deal with such a failure. If he failed one of his first duels, he could still lump his earlier success on "beginner's luck" and deal with this without the prior experiences, public opinion and the knowledge that he "should be better" all pushing on him. But after nearly a decade of not losing? "The higher they rise, the harder they fall" is going to be proven empirically.

 

 

 

I believe Adolin will become isolated either by events or isolating himself from the others. He will spend time training recruits while he tries to find his place in this new world. He is very sentimental and I believe that he will spend more time with his blade just talking to it as a way to go thru his problems and keep himself together and when the cup overfills and he actually break there will be a chance for the spren to create the bond.

 

We're certainly in agreement about this.

[maxal]

-I do not think losing a duel will break him, he is professional and even if he loses and have a dip in his confidence he won’t break. Besides the dueling for shards is probably over now so no chance to duel.

 

I do not think Adolin will break over one event: taken separately he could perhaps deal with it all, but I seriously doubt his capacity of adaptation is large enough for him to cope with everything crashing on him all at once.

 

You have highlighted it in your post. Adolin has to deal with:

 

1) Everyone he is close to him being Radiant. It is likely he can process Kaladin being one: his initial reaction was positive. He was in the process to deal with Shallan being one, but he was more concerned about his own place into the world than her being a Radiant. He now has to deal with his father and his brother being ones. How do you even begin to deal with everyone in your family, but yourself, being chosen to refund an ancient order of fantastic knights? Who can actually swallow this one without feeling left out? Even a little?

 

2) If only it was learning his close ones all have magic powers, but their powers imply the return of the Radiants which in turn will destroy the current order of things. So Adolin not only has to deal with everyone he knows being practically invulnerable, he has to deal with how it will affect his social standing. He will never rise as high as they, he will never be deemed worthy of his famous father: he is forever doomed to live in his shadow. How does one even begin to feel confident about his own abilities when your first level examples are magic knights?

 

Isn't that enough? I fear any normal human being would struggle with just this, but it does not stop there.

 

3) The Shardblade he is so fond of, the weapon he genuinely treats as a live partner out of respect for what it once been is in fact a suffering dead spren who would scream in his head, had he be proven worthy. When he was simply feeling the Blade was letting him use it, out of mutual respect, he was in fact torturing it, forcing it to obey his petty needs. How can this revelation not weight heavily on him and linger to the back of his mind each time he'll think of summoning it? How can he, who hates bullies so vividly, who steps in to help those in need whenever possible, not feel scatted upon learning HE is the bully? To his Blade, he is one.

 

4) Not only he wasn't chosen to be part of the new Radiants, he basically loses control and takes out his father's greatest enemy. Sadeas may have been a despicable human being who earned his death sentence, Adolin still wasn't in his right to kill him as he did. So not only he committed a crime, he violated the trust his father has put into him. How does one even begin to deal with that? The deception, the guilt, the fear, the anxiety. What will happen to him now? Does he even have a future anymore? Suddenly wondering where he stand in a world where the Radiants are back seems petty.

 

As it is, Adolin already has too much on his plate: everything happened all at once. He has not even begin to start coping with 1), he gets trust with 2), then 3) and finally 4). In the matter of 5 days. 5 days is all it took to destroy the life as he knew it, the change everything, him who has always been so insecure in front of the unknown is now swimming into a foreign sea likely trying to just stay afloat.

 

I haven't even mention his potential issues with Shallan: he still is Adolin. Adolin the impulsive, Adolin who sticks his foot into his mouth, Adolin who babbles too much, Adolin who always screws it up. The probability he will screw it up with Shallan is enormously high as he never dealt with whatever prevented him from making it work. He still doesn't know: this still is an open issue.

 

In that optic, no simply losing a duel may not be enough to break him, though I suspect it would be a true hardship to overcome for him, but with all else that's happening it may just be the straw which breaks the camel's back. 

 

I agree he likely won't duel to win Shards again, but do not forget he is dueling champion: he will have to defend his title. He also has this pending duel with Sadeas: does his heir get to reinforced it? If the answer is yes, then it is an easy way to drag Adolin back into the arena. Or do they highjudge figures out Kaladin and Renarin being Radiants meant Adolin cheated during the 4 on 1 duel? He was supposed to be at a disadvantage: are the Ruthar going to start arguing he wasn't and demand a re-match? Without Kaladin to help. 

 

Adolin has not miss dueling in every book: I think it is safe to assume he will duel someone in the next one.

 

 

Oh gods, just reading about it makes me feel absolutely stressed out. If Brandon really writes something along those lines, this is going to be the most harrowing scene in the book for me, period. Not to say that I don't want to read it, but...  gaaah. 

 

Yeah... I know the feeling, it is terrible and yet this is exactly the kind of scene which built characters thus making them interesting even if horribly heart-breaking. 

 

I can also push the imagery farther... Imagine Dalinar and Elhokar watching the duel and thinking this is just another one of his strategies. He isn't really losing, he isn't really struggling: he is faking. Don't worry uncle, he took that hit on purpose. Don't worry uncle, he does not really need his helmet. He is faking it.

 

He is faking it.

 

He is faking it.

 

Until he takes one blow too many, until it becomes obvious he isn't faking it.

 

When the final blow lands, imagine hearing Highjudge Istow state it: "XYZ wins, Adolin Kholin forfeits his Plate and his Blade". You then see the opposite team's armorers rush into the arena to take the Plate out of Adolin, just he did to Elit.

 

And then, he has to unbound the Blade and chull hits the fan.

 

I do not know if Brandon will swing Adolin's character arc down this way, but I will be disappointed if he just walks out of his ordeal unscathed. Not only it would be boring, but also terribly unrealistic. I am trying to significantly lower my expectations when it comes to Adolin, but if Brandon does nothing with him, I will be disappointed.

 

 

This is a valid point, and one that'll sure weigh on him heavily. I'm wondering whether we're not all just noticing only small parts of what's going to happen - with all that can go wrong, out esteemed author can simply have everything go wrong for Adolin, now can't he?

 

Well he did have everything go wrong for Kaladin... Surely he can do the same for Adolin 

 

 

Even without Shard-trading, there're still ample opportunities for young, war-like noblemen to come to blows and have to settle in "honourable" manner. And I believe you overestimate Adolin's professionalism somewhat here. Note that Adolin has never lost. Never. Not a single duel. Even if he is a professional - and we see over the course of WoR that he's extremely emotional - he just flat out doesn't have a coping mechanism. Having one requires experience, and he's never had one, so there was no chance for his psyche to learn how to deal with such a failure. If he failed one of his first duels, he could still lump his earlier success on "beginner's luck" and deal with this without the prior experiences, public opinion and the knowledge that he "should be better" all pushing on him. But after nearly a decade of not losing? "The higher they rise, the harder they fall" is going to be proven empirically.

 

I agree with this. Adolin, it seems, has been completely sheltered from his family's terrible past. Of all the little Kholins, it appears he is the only one who never had to deal with real hardships: the Golden Boy. So of course he has absolutely no coping mechanism besides lashing out in uncontrollable display of emotions.

 

Adolin never lost a fight. Ever. He never encountered a foe he couldn't beat before he faced Szeth and we saw how this unsettled him. He spent an entire night sitting, cross-legged and wearing his Plate, by his father's doorstep, chewing ridgeback to stay awake in pure fear the enemy would take him unprepared again. Seriously Dalinar, you let him do this? How hard would it have been for you to actually talk to your son? The next day, none the wisest, Adolin promptly goes practicing the one move he feels would have been useful: throwing the Blade. We all saw how that went: how many time did he have to through it before he managed? This should have been easy for him, but he was so distressed by the ordeal. he failed at commanding his Blade.

 

All this for a foe Adolin agrees he shouldn't be able to beat as he possess magic powers.

 

In which state will he put himself when he starts losing against normal people?

 

Failure, just as success has to be dealt with. Adolin, so far, ever dealt with the second and he perhaps is bond to do so in the worst possible time, so if this doesn't crack him, I don't know what will.

 

I also agree the fact he reached adulthood without being forced to deal with failure is likely going to make it harder, not easier, but harder.

[Jondesu]

2) If only it was learning his close ones all have magic powers, but their powers imply the return of the Radiants which in turn will destroy the current order of things. So Adolin not only has to deal with everyone he knows being practically invulnerable, he has to deal with how it will affect his social standing.

I don't disagree with most of what everyone's been saying, but I did want to comment on this part.  Nearly everyone Adolin cares about is nigh-invulnerable now, yes.  That should be a huge source of relaxation for him, and I don't think his thoughts will be about his social position in that situation.  He cares so much about protecting his family and those he cares about, so to have them nearly impossible to kill would just ease his mind a great deal.

 

jW

[maxal]

I don't disagree with most of what everyone's been saying, but I did want to comment on this part.  Nearly everyone Adolin cares about is nigh-invulnerable now, yes.  That should be a huge source of relaxation for him, and I don't think his thoughts will be about his social position in that situation.  He cares so much about protecting his family and those he cares about, so to have them nearly impossible to kill would just ease his mind a great deal.

 

jW

 

I'd say this is an interesting idea, but I personally think Adolin is naturally too stressed out to ever be calm about it. You just don't change your mindset in a day. Besides, it isn't as if Dalinar was actually helpless before... and yet Adolin saw it as his duty to watch over him.

 

As for his thoughts, he already was wondering about his position near the end of WoR. I doubt it will all go away because more Radiants popped by.

[IndigoAjah]

I don't think they are invulnerable - we know that heralds can die (temporarily) - Adolin is going to see some stuff that can easily kill Radiants, otherwise the action bits of the story would be a foregone conclusion