killersquirrel59 he/him Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 I just had a thought while rereading HoA. There has been a lot of debate as to what Trellium might be. It is generally assumed to be a new God Metal. The most common theories seem to be one from Odium or from Autonomy. But what if it isn't alien at all? In Hero of Ages, it is revealed that Ruin could not see the Atium. He only found out where it was when he heard the Kandra talking about it outside the Homeland. What if the same principle applies here? What if this unknown godmetal spike is Sazedium (or Harmonium if you must, though I hate that name)? It fits with everything we've seen about God Metals so far. 4
Kaymyth she/her Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 I just had a thought while rereading HoA. There has been a lot of debate as to what Trellium might be. It is generally assumed to be a new God Metal. The most common theories seem to be one from Odium or from Autonomy. But what if it isn't alien at all? In Hero of Ages, it is revealed that Ruin could not see the Atium. He only found out where it was when he heard the Kandra talking about it outside the Homeland. What if the same principle applies here? What if this unknown godmetal spike is Sazedium (or Harmonium if you must, though I hate that name)? It fits with everything we've seen about God Metals so far. The question that then raises is if the unknown metal is Sazed's godmetal, why wasn't he able to recognize it once the kandra had the spike in hand?
Edgedancer he/him Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I just had a thought while rereading HoA. There has been a lot of debate as to what Trellium might be. It is generally assumed to be a new God Metal. The most common theories seem to be one from Odium or from Autonomy. But what if it isn't alien at all? In Hero of Ages, it is revealed that Ruin could not see the Atium. He only found out where it was when he heard the Kandra talking about it outside the Homeland. What if the same principle applies here? What if this unknown godmetal spike is Sazedium (or Harmonium if you must, though I hate that name)? It fits with everything we've seen about God Metals so far. It isn't that Ruin couldn't see the Atium. It's that the Atium was hidden behind the equivalent of an extremly blinding light so he couldn't look at where the Atium was. If the Atium was just laying around normally he could have found it just fine. Edited December 30, 2015 by Edgedancer 2
killersquirrel59 he/him Posted December 30, 2015 Author Posted December 30, 2015 I don't think that's the case Edgedancer. Ruin couldn't even see any metal at all, needing Marsh to read him the note on the steel sheet. All metal shone equally, making it indistinguishable. Otherwise, why wouldn't he have had his servants take control of the Pits long ago? He didn't find the atium at all until KanPar was talking about selling it outside the Homeland.
Argent he/him Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 I don't think that's the case Edgedancer. Ruin couldn't even see any metal at all, needing Marsh to read him the note on the steel sheet. All metal shone equally, making it indistinguishable. Otherwise, why wouldn't he have had his servants take control of the Pits long ago? He didn't find the atium at all until KanPar was talking about selling it outside the Homeland. Because the atium was hidden well. It was always surrounded with other metal - from the moment it was extracted from its geode, until the moment it was deposited inside the Trust. No chance for Ruin to see it.
DreamEternal Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Because the atium was hidden well. It was always surrounded with other metal - from the moment it was extracted from its geode, until the moment it was deposited inside the Trust. No chance for Ruin to see it. But couldn't he track the conteiner atium was in between getting extracted and being stored in the Homeland? Edited December 31, 2015 by DreamEternal 1
Stormgate he/him Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 But couldn't he track the conteiner atium was in between getting stracted and being armazenated in the Homeland? I'm sorry, too many typos to make it legible.
Argent he/him Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 A few trusted Obligators were mixing the containers up, sending both regular metal and very little atium to Luthadel, leaving most of the atium to be transported to the Homeland in secret. You have to remember, Ruin doesn't see everything - he could, but it requires focus on his part, and the Lord Ruler simply disguised the atium shipments too well.
DreamEternal Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 I'm sorry, too many typos to make it legible.Better now? English is hard. 1
Stormgate he/him Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Better now? English is hard. Yes, thank you.
skaa he/him Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Last month I compiled all possible theories I could think of about trellium, hoping to eliminate theories one by one as new evidence comes out. Trellium=Harmonium is one of them. Here's my entry on that: It is harmonium. This might be why Isaac created an Allomantic symbol that is apparently a mixture of atium and lerasium specifically for the Shadows of Self signing. Because harmonium was in Shadows of Self, hiding in plain sight. Here's the symbol I'm talking about. Like others here, my main complaint about this theory is that MeLaan claims that Sazed doesn't know of Paalm's metal. The reason I'm keeping it in my list is because Sazed (or MeLaan) might be lying. 1
killersquirrel59 he/him Posted December 31, 2015 Author Posted December 31, 2015 Last month I compiled all possible theories I could think of about trellium, hoping to eliminate theories one by one as new evidence comes out. Trellium=Harmonium is one of them. Here's my entry on that: Here's the symbol I'm talking about. Like others here, my main complaint about this theory is that MeLaan claims that Sazed doesn't know of Paalm's metal. The reason I'm keeping it in my list is because Sazed (or MeLaan) might be lying. He's not even necessarily lying. Sazed is still learning all that comes with godhood. His expanded mind is filled with all the knowledge of his Copperminds, not with the secrets of the Cosmere that were known by Ati and Leras. Assuming that what was true for Ati is true for him as well and he cannot sense his own god metal, I think it is well within reason that he might not even know the rules about how it works, where/when it forms, and why he can't sense or manipulate it, naturally leading him to genuinely believe it is alien.
Edgedancer he/him Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) He's not even necessarily lying. Sazed is still learning all that comes with godhood. His expanded mind is filled with all the knowledge of his Copperminds, not with the secrets of the Cosmere that were known by Ati and Leras. Assuming that what was true for Ati is true for him as well and he cannot sense his own god metal, I think it is well within reason that he might not even know the rules about how it works, where/when it forms, and why he can't sense or manipulate it, naturally leading him to genuinely believe it is alien. The whole points of the ephigraphs in the Hero of Ages was Sazed telling Spook (and people in general) about the new knowledge he gained about everything now that he is a Shard. He literally just got knowledge about Hemalurgy and why a Shards power/body takes shape as a metal, how is that explained only by the knowledge in his copperminds? Furthermore, if Ruin couldn't see Atium general, why would the Lord Ruler have needed to be that careful with hiding it? Edited December 31, 2015 by Edgedancer
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 I'd still say its either Harmonium or an alloy of it with one of the other metals, as I'd posit that it would do some funky stuff. Harmony wouldn't necessarily recognise something he's never seen before...but, I'm just gonna wait and see for BoM/TLM
Moogle Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) We have sorta-confirmation that the spike is not of Harmony: Q: About Paalm’s spike, is it that one specifically that allowed her to hide from Harmony? A: It was mostly because she was not using a spike made out of any metal that he knew. She could not have done that with any spike. Taking out one helped a bit, but a non-Harmony spike… what you’re seeing there is a weird intentional hack of the magic system that I built in.(source) YMMV on whether or not "of Harmony" means it couldn't be a spike of either Ruin or Preservation, but I think it's strong strong evidence against. Edited January 1, 2016 by Moogle
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 Might just be me nit-picking, but wouldn't he have just said non-harmonium? Or would that mean all of the spikes we know of associated with Harmony? I may have just confused myself even more but thanks for the WoB moogle!
mattig89ch he/him Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 I thought the spikes were neutral. Not associated with any particular higher power, but higher powers would have the ability to interact with/through them. So, while wax would be talking to harmony through his spike, the other higher power could (in theory) be listening. Mind you, I have no idea where I got this idea. Its just the impression I had. Now god made spikes on the other hand, I could see those being higher power specific.
DreamEternal Posted January 4, 2016 Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) All shards would have an easier time interacting with spiked beings, due to them having big holes in their spiritwebs that are everything but protected. However, Ruin and Preservation are the makers of Scadrial, allowing them to directly touch their minds, and in Ruin's case as the maker of hemalurgy, control them. Edited January 4, 2016 by DreamEternal
Kadrok she/her Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I like this theory. A pity about the WoB. I was about to mention that perhaps the pits have finally started up again, but instead of churning out Atium they're churning out Sazedium. Of course there are some issues with this anyway... but it'd be cool if some of the cosmic "wiring" (for want of a better description) from back in the Ruin-Preservation days was still around and Sazed hasn't noticed it because it's inert thus far... only to reactivate in modern times and default to the closest thing to what it was designed for...
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