20151227 - The First Majus in Space pt1 - Mandamon

[Mandamon]

Hello all,
    Some of the older members may have seen this before.  It's been updated and turned into a short story (about 15k).  This is the first of four parts.  Let me know:
What bores you
What confuses you
What you don't believe
What is cool
    Thanks!

[rdpulfer]

- I like the teaser passage, but you said "one of the House of Strength", which initially made be confused if you were referring to someone from that House, or if there was more than one house.

 

- A couple pages in, and it's really keeping my interest. I like that it's from the point of view of a fly on the wall, or rather, in the crowd, but what makes it interesting is that Origen isn't insignificant - at least in his own perception.

 

- A little confused by how the Houses work. The opening explains that all the Houses can overcome one another, but Origen is a member of at least two Houses? How does that work?

 

- The description of the Symphonies at work is really engaging.

 

- Not sure if it is intentional, but "I'm a psychiatrist, not a surgeon!" sounds like a reversal on something Bones McCoy would say.

 

- I really like where this is going, especially in the end of the submission. I'm really liking this setting, and I can't wait to see what happens next.

[Eisenheim]

There is just a lot to absorb here.  I think I actually need less information about the magic and the species.  Normally dropping extra info as asides the way you do is fine, but there's so much story critical world building going on that the incidental stuff is just overloading me.

 

Gripes/confusions:

These people have an interplanetary society (because magic, I get that) and are inventing rockets, but they still don't have guns with multiple shot magazines?  Unless I'm going to learn that space in this universe is actually an air and light bearing aether, that grates from a technological standpoint, even with magic retarding development in some sectors.

 

You mention bats in describing a species, which is the only earth animal mentioned.  I don't think these people have bats.

[Robinski]

Ah, Origon. Well met, my friend. Well met indeed.

 

It was a pleasure to read this again and I look forward to the rest. As it is familiar to me, and remembering my reactions to it first time around, I was fascinated to read the reactions of others. I'm particularly interested to see that Eisenheim had the same reactions as I did in terms of information overload, also rocket vs. firearms.

 

Anyway, detailed comments below. Some of these probably mirror comments I made first time around (my comments text file, on finishing my read of Seeds of Dissolution, is dated 5 January 2014!), but hey-ho, I’ve not checked back at the content so you get a fresh reaction.

 

It’s hard for me to tell how much my reading Seeds of Dissolution has helped with my understanding, and how much it’s any edits that you’ve done – have you edited this current version?

 

Anyway, it’s a great read, the highlight for me being the relationship between Origon and Rilan. More please!

 

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“smelling far too overcooked” – to me, it’s overcooked or it’s not. The implication of levels of overcooking is confusing, I think. (This comment gives me a strange sense of déjà écrit   ;op

 

The transition from Origon’s thoughts about pick-pocketing to him regarding the ‘hulk’ is very sudden. There’s no approach to the thing in growing wonderment, suddenly it is just there.

 

“The canny Methiemum had issued an open invitation to anyone and everyone to watch their grand invention.” – watch it do what? Unlike ‘see’ or ‘inspect’, ‘watch’ to me implies it’s not just to see the thing, but to watch it do something. I thought sentence sounded unfinished.

 

Cheese – lol. Cracking rocket, Grommet.

 

“But he didn’t think so. ” – Isn’t this part of the previous paragraph? Also, phrasing sounded odd to me. My brain wanted ‘But he didn’t think they would.’ or, ‘Not even the Methiemum would be so cravenly greedy.’

 

“He had just reached the front of the platform” – No surrender!

 

“when the immense sheet dropped from the frame” – I feel as if there hasn’t been much description of the scene/setting, and the grand object itself in its shrouded form, which I thought robbed the reveal of some of its grandeur.

 

“It gleamed in the sunlight,” – just to refer to setting again, I can presume we are in a square or plaza and that it is daytime, the sun is shining – but only by implication.

 

“and Origon filled in the blanks in his knowledge” – suggest something like ‘His words filled in the blanks in Origon’s knowledge. For me, Origon isn’t active here, it’s the mayor.

 

I feel Origon’s suitability for the task of piloting (?) the spacecraft is somewhat undersold. Why is his particular combination of abilities the most suitable one?

 

“so it was not hard for one to be familiar” – for me, this phasing is awkward. I think it implies active attempts to be familiar, but it’s a passive thing really, I would have said. I'm suggesting something like, ‘so the most prominent were well known to the populous’.

 

“Tejus was the only Methiemum of the four maji” – up on the rocket, right?

 

“to both the House of Communication and the House of Power” – suggested for brevity and therefore pace.

 

“he could direct the great capsule up into the sky” – as previous, I'm missing a sense of grandeur, I think.

 

“The Sureriaj species grudgingly accepted the invention at first” – this sounds like they are the arbiters of everything, is that the intention, or is it because he is on Sureriaj?

 

“Guns were a newer invention of the Methiemum” – why ‘newer’ and not just ‘new’?

 

“Three shots.” I feel like there were more. The first thing he saw was a flash then there as another flash when first he turned towards the marksman.

 

“Every person only had a certain share of the light and vibration that created the universe” – this is an awkward sentence.

 

“Rilan was already waiting for him on the stage” – I remember commenting on this line before. Rilan appears instantaneously and the phrasing demands that the reader accept her presence without question or curiosity, although explanation does follow. I tried it in my head as ‘His friend Rilan was already waiting for him...” I don’t know. It’s probably just me.

 

“It told less about him.” – How does it tell any less than olive and white?

 

“Hold still! I’m a psychiatrist, not a surgeon.” – Lol, dammit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a literary critic! (I had to Google to ‘recall’ which episode of the Original Series you had ‘evoked’ City on the Edge of Tomorrow, of course!)

 

“Is there to be a doctor among you?” – but there can’t be, by any reasonable standard a trained physician would have stepped, surely.

 

“The crew were wearing” – Ah ha, an old favourite. I suppose it should be ‘crew was’, or ‘crewmen were’, technically.

 

“by another errant bullet” – Are the bullets errant? They would be aimed at him presumably, as opposed to accidentally coming close.

 

“the crowded amphitheater” – Back to my comment about setting. Should I actually be picturing an amphitheatre now, or is this a simile?

 

“Even if there is a doctor in this crowd, I don’t think he’ll get here in time” – But Origon’s request was only voiced to the crew who are way up in the air on the platform. I suppose a doctor might be making his/her way from somewhere nearby.

 

“they could make more of these capsules” – This explanation could be clearer, I think, and – Presumably they don’t need the whole rocket in future, just a landing capsule, which can be put through a portal. I felt this passage could be clearer.

[Robinski]

Not sure if it is intentional, but "I'm a psychiatrist, not a surgeon!" sounds like a reversal on something Bones McCoy would say.

 

Oh, it's intentional - lol.

[Mandamon]

Thanks folks!

 

I've written in the universe so much I have a hard time seeing when the magic is confusing or not, which is why I have you all!

 

- A little confused by how the Houses work. The opening explains that all the Houses can overcome one another, but Origen is a member of at least two Houses? How does that work?

This is the main complaint I often get (see my tagline...).  See if this makes sense by the time you get to the second part.

Is this confusing enough that you would stop reading, or would you be willing to keep on to find out, if you were reading on your own?

 

 

There is just a lot to absorb here.  I think I actually need less information about the magic and the species.  Normally dropping extra info as asides the way you do is fine, but there's so much story critical world building going on that the incidental stuff is just overloading me.

 

Gripes/confusions:

These people have an interplanetary society (because magic, I get that) and are inventing rockets, but they still don't have guns with multiple shot magazines?  Unless I'm going to learn that space in this universe is actually an air and light bearing aether, that grates from a technological standpoint, even with magic retarding development in some sectors.

 

You mention bats in describing a species, which is the only earth animal mentioned.  I don't think these people have bats.

What specifically is overloading you?  The magic?  The different species?  Just the names?

 

Yes, I've had other complaints about the guns.  I think I'll just make them not used very much.  I'm thinking WWI era where officers still would carry swords, but infantry might have guns.

 

Re: bats.  I try to keep animal mentions to a minimum, but I'm of the mind that if it moves like a bat and squeaks like a bat, call it a bat rather than a zarfdoodle.  My main question is did it help you visualize what I meant?

 

 

It’s hard for me to tell how much my reading Seeds of Dissolution has helped with my understanding, and how much it’s any edits that you’ve done – have you edited this current version?

This is definitely edited.  You might see more differences as the story progresses.  Thanks for the fresh re-read!  

I'm actually planning on putting this on my website as a freebie once I self-pub Tuning the Symphony next year, so you may be my intended audience, though I still want to make the magic clear enough.   Of course, my goal is to make this stand by itself.

Thanks for all the comments as usual.  Looks like overall I need to add more setting description to start with.  Maybe that will help with the confusion the other folks are having if there is more setting and less magic and strange species?

 

Oh, it's intentional - lol.

--guilty.

[Eisenheim]

 

Yes, I've had other complaints about the guns.  I think I'll just make them not used very much.  I'm thinking WWI era where officers still would carry swords, but infantry might have guns.

 

Re: bats.  I try to keep animal mentions to a minimum, but I'm of the mind that if it moves like a bat and squeaks like a bat, call it a bat rather than a zarfdoodle.  My main question is did it help you visualize what I meant?

 

 

Guns: you'll have to look way farther back for guns that work the way you want.  The civil war was the last one fought with guns that fire as slow as you describe, and swords were only ceremonial by then, most officers had a revolver even if they didn't carry a rifle.  Rifles with magazines existed even then, they just weren't universal.

 

Bats: it helped me visualize, but it actively threw me out of immersion.  Everything else is alien, bringing in a bat makes me wonder about where earth is instead of focusing on your world.

[Kammererite]

First off, i love the tittle.

I liked what i read and am interested to see where the story is going

 

Magic: There is alot slivered in but I am still a little confused about why he couldn't deflect the bullet but can move people.  That said i think its cool and like what you are doing with it.

 

Homeworlds: I understand how they travel between them, but am a little lost on how they colonized the ten homeworlds, i assume its something to do with lost technology.

 

Wasting Spice: I thought the food was overcooked not overspiced

 

Letting the composition of the shield: I didn't think he made the shield.

 

In response to the gun vs .rocket: This didn't bother me very much. i can easily see it being possible with the magical assistance you are providing. The basics of rockets very similar to firearms when you think about it. I don't see the problem with the advent of rockets prior to multi shot weaponry given the world has sufficient magic and metallurgy.

 

Guns: The civil war was the last one fought with guns that fire as slow as you describe, and swords were only ceremonial by then, most officers had a revolver even if they didn't carry a rifle.  Rifles with magazines existed even then, they just weren't universal.

 

I am no military historian in a world of one shot weapons, a sword is a great weapon, you never have to reload.

 

Houses: initially I was confused but very quickly realized they are magical domains.

[AuthorityHellas16]

Sorry I'm late to the party, folks. I've been completely swamped this week!

 

First off, Mandamon, it's a pleasure to be reading some of your work. Hopefully I can be half as helpful as you have been to me. 

 

I'm obviously new to this story, but I really like how you dive into the action, rather than meandering around with descriptions and stuff. It benefits a short story, where you obviously can't be too verbose. I like the magic system, and thought that you sprinkled just the right amount of info in to allow me to get the gist without it slowing down the story. I like the non-human character, and the organisation of the Houses seems very interesting. 

 

I think one thing that would make the events much more visceral is if you allowed the environment to interact with Origon (is that a play on Oregon, per chance?). I like how he has to jostle through the crowd, but when the shots from the Sureriaj ring out, there doesn't seem to be much indication that anyone in the crowd reacts. For example, Origon's focussed vision is made difficult by the attacker's movements, but not by people pushing and shoving at him. I always find that keeping track of where a character is in a scene brings that scene to life. 

 

I don't know if you could fit this in, but I would personally like just a hint of description of some of the other species. Even a little tidbit like "reptillian" would give me a foundation to construct a mental image of the other species Origon is interacting with. Just my opinion, though, and I'm not sure how relevant this would be to the plot. Similarly, a smidge of descriptions of the location, even with non-specific adjectives like "majestic" or "dingy" would give me an anchor on which to base my imaginings of this world. 

 

Overall, it's great. I look forward to reading the rest and learning more about the species, the magic system and the world you've created. 

[Mandamon]

Thanks again!

 

Oddly, I just read an article on Tor this morning about the archaeology of your worldbuilding, and it mentioned things like guns being a real sticking point with people, despite when they come up culturally.  I'm going to change this point somehow, but I'm not sure how yet.  Thanks for all the comments on it.

 

On detail: I originally had a lot more detail in this beginning section but edited it out because other readers were getting bored without action and even more confused with alien race descriptions as well as magic.  I think from everyone's comments, I need to put a little of that back in, but try not to be confusing.  Kammerite--this goes to your point on Homeworlds.  They're all connected by portals, which you'll see very soon, but I should probably mention that earlier.  AuthorityHellas, very good points on letting Origon (no, not a play on Oregon, just happens to be a similar word) interact more with the crowd.  Good catch on the crowd reacting to the gunshots earlier.

 

On Magic: Kammerite, you have it correct that the Houses are magical domains.  Looks like I still need to make the workings clearer without info-dumping.  You will learn more in the part next week.  I'm ok with a little reader confusion to begin with as long as you get it cleared up before you get frustrated, so let me know if the next post makes things clearer.  

[Shrike76]

I'm late, but I'm trying to do some catching up this week.

 

I enjoyed the premise of this for the most part, but scanning up I can see that others already mentioned some of the same issues I had. It was, at times, a bit of a tough read.

 

Information Overload: You have a few things here that require a lot of info-dumping, mainly the species and the magic system, and I think having both of them detailed up front makes it very hard to retain anything. I can see why you have to be clear about the magic system, otherwise its ability to send a rocket to the moon later is hard to swallow, which means I think you need to back off a little bit on the species. Specifically looking back at the first paragraph, it made no sense to me when I was reading it the first time, but looking back on it now that I'm at the end I can see what you were trying to describe.

One thing that isn't clear is if each species has its own world (it seems like they do, because Methiem is a planet, and it seems like Methiemum is a species although I don't think you outright say it) and if they do then it makes me wonder how come they've managed to mix it up and have a presence on multiple planets but they haven't been to their own moon yet?

 

Guns: This didn't bother me much. People create technology where there is a need, and it doesn't surprise me that in a world with real magic, that the development of other weapons might fall by the wayside in a way which didn't happen here on Earth. It also doesn't surprise me that magic-assisted space travel would arrive before firearms. All you have to do is state that this is the way it is and come up with a reasonable reason why it should be so, and I'm good to go.

 

For your questions, I'll say I wasn't bored, but I was confused by the many details of the races and worlds. I think the entire premise is pretty cool, but where I feel I need more information in order for everything to make sense is why they need magic in the first place for this rocket launch. Is the fuel they have incapable of reaching the moon on its own, and if so why? And what does the magic add that simply controlling the burn of fuel wouldn't be able to achieve.

 

It's too early for me to judge all the elements in this story. I'm intrigued by the world you've built and I want to read more, but I haven't completely bought into it yet. I'm hopeful though, it's got all the elements of being the sort of story I want to enjoy

[Mandamon]

Thanks Shrike!  I think you'll get your questions answered about how the rocket works in the next submission.  if not, let me know.  Good points about the information overload.  That seems to be the consistent comment.  I've yet to find a good balance where both the learning curve is shallower, and all the information later on is well foreshadowed.

[rdpulfer]

I will say the magic system is a bit confusing, but it's original and interesting, so I'm definitely not going to throw this story down and stomp off in frustration. I'm going to read more, whatever its problems. 

[Mandamon]

I'm ok with it being a bit confusing at first if the story is interesting, but it should be clear by halfway through the story.  Let me know if that's the case.