How much did Preservation actually predict?

[Edgedancer he/him]

It's a pretty straight forwards question. On the one hand he made the prophecy about the hero of Ages, which while vague was perfectly accurate, implying that he actually managed to predict Sazed taking up the Shards. On the other hand however, he did everything he could to keep Vin from releasing Ruin, which doesn't make sense if he knew about the events of book 3, after all why keep him in prision if the guy that will actually save them is out there?

 

Was that vague description simply the best he could do, meaning he never realized he was actually talking about Sazed and that things actually played out this way was simply a lucky coincidence?

[Eagle of the Forest Path he/him]

The one that tried to stop Vin from releasing Ruin was the Mist Spirit. While it is true that the Mist Spirit was actually Preservation, he was basically out of his mind at that time. Most of his mind had been turned into Ruin's prison so the Mist Spirit might not have realized/remembered that releasing Ruin was part of the plan.

 

The prediction might have been intentionally left vague, since Preservation knew Ruin would mess with it anyway, a more specificity wouldn't have mattered. A vague prediction would have actually had a better chance at surviving in a form that might actually be useful.

[Stormgate he/him]

Especially considering that Ruin might not have known that the prophecy was important, or that it was an actual prediction.

[King's Twit he/him]

I haven't gone back to look at the prophesy, but I've always thought that some of the prophesy, especially the part about "bearing the future of the world on your arms," is meant to point specifically to a Keeper, and the rest is either corrupted by Ruin, an invention of the Terris religion, or something Preservation added to make it feel more like a prophesy and to hide the lines which point to Keepers.

 

EDIT: Also, about the Mist Spirit; I believe that it was Preservation's plan that someone use the power at the Well and renew Ruin's prison, and then to take up Preservation while Ruin was still trapped. The Mist Spirit knew, from watching her and likely also from being able to read her thoughts, that Vin was not going to use the power, and so it was trying to delay her from reaching the Well until it could convey to her what she needed to do

Edited December 18, 2015 by King's Twit

[Stormgate he/him]

Also, it was meant to have Sazed realize that he was the one who needed to take the Shards.

[king of nowhere]

I believe preservation was hoping that vin would take the power of the mists mmuch earlier in the novels, which would have happened if run hadn't spiked her. And he also had flashes of a keeper that would have been relevant to it. I really doubt he could have predicted everything that happened, considering how harmony seems much more limited.

[Yata he/him]

I believe preservation was hoping that vin would take the power of the mists mmuch earlier in the novels, which would have happened if run hadn't spiked her. And he also had flashes of a keeper that would have been relevant to it. I really doubt he could have predicted everything that happened, considering how harmony seems much more limited.

It's quite impossible or Sazed may be not the first people to find them (Vin and At).

I suppose that Preservation saw everything with details.

If you have an accurate futuresight is quite "easy" to change things to correct the future.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Yata

[King's Twit he/him]

Unless Preservation was waaaaay better at seeing into the future than Ruin, I don't believe that he actually saw thousands of years into the future to predict exactly what was going to happen in the Era 1 books.

 

Preservation may have set up the mists, the Well, and the prophesies in such a way that humanity had the best chance possible of succeeding against Ruin. That would be some god-tier (no pun intended) deduction, but more plausible than seeing clearly that far into the future.

 

I think that Alendi and Vin, the two chosen by the mists, were meant to be the ones who took up the power at the Well, took in the mists to become the Preservation Shardholder, and then die to kill Ruin as Vin did. Then the true Hero of Ages, a Wordbringer/Keeper, was meant to take up the two shards and use their copperminds to do as Sazed did.

 

Come to think of it, that may be why there was the official role of the Announcer in the prophesies; it was an attempt to make sure a Worldbringer was on hand when the two shards needed to be taken up.

 

EDIT: possible counter to my first sentence: It's unlikely, but what if Ruin could not see into the future as well as Preservation could because the piece of his power that Preservation used to create the Pits of Hathsin was Ruin's future-sight ability, which is why Atium allomancy grants that ability.

Edited December 18, 2015 by King's Twit

[baby he/him]

I'm pretty sure there's a WoB somewhere that says that some shards are simply better at seeing the future than others, and that this is based on intent because Ruin just wants to ruin everything NOW. Thus, not as great a future sight.

[Oversleep]

On the other hand, the power his godmetal grants in Allomancy is seeing into the future, for colours sake!

 

In Feruchemy it's also related to manipulation of time...Or rather getting old, which is a proces of enthropy for humans, so it's tied to Ruin. Why Preservation which is about things staying the way the are is good at seeing into the future?

[King's Twit he/him]

 

I'm pretty sure there's a WoB somewhere that says that some shards are simply better at seeing the future than others, and that this is based on intent because Ruin just wants to ruin everything NOW. Thus, not as great a future sight.

 

But they mention several times that Ruin is not mindless destruction, and is willing to build something up if it means getting to destroy more.

 

Also, Atium and all of its alloys grant time-related abilities, and we know that the allomantic power of Atium and its alloys comes from the Atium itself. Why would a Shard with a relatively weak connection to time manifest these abilities in its God metal?

Edited December 19, 2015 by King's Twit

[natc]

But they mention several times that Ruin is not mindless destruction, and is willing to build something up if it means getting to destroy more.

Also, Atium and all of its alloys grant time-related abilities, and we know that the allomantic power of Atium and its alloys comes from the Atium itself. Why would a Shard with a relatively weak connection to time manifest these abilities in its God metal?

We've only seen one of them, and it was alloyed to something that had time abilities to begin with.

[King's Twit he/him]

There's a WoB somewhere (I'm on my phone right now or else I'd try to find it) which says that the allomantic effects of the alloys of Atium were all related in some way to time.

 

EDIT: Got it

 

MARU NUI 

What would an atium-electrum alloy do in Allomancy?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON 

The alloys of atium have various temporal effects.


 

Edited December 19, 2015 by King's Twit

[Charononus]

I'm pretty sure there's a WoB somewhere that says that some shards are simply better at seeing the future than others, and that this is based on intent because Ruin just wants to ruin everything NOW. Thus, not as great a future sight.

I think it's part of stormlight.

[natc]

There's a WoB somewhere (I'm on my phone right now or else I'd try to find it) which says that the allomantic effects of the alloys of Atium were all related in some way to time.

EDIT: Got it

Well that's interesting.

[Stormgate he/him]

I think that Alendi wasn't supposed to be the Hero of Ages. Why would a Feruchemist be needed if Rashek hadn't screwed up Scadrial? No, Preservation saw both Vin and Sazed. Alendi was probably a necessary bump in the road, or something.

[Edgedancer he/him]

I think that Alendi wasn't supposed to be the Hero of Ages. Why would a Feruchemist be needed if Rashek hadn't screwed up Scadrial? No, Preservation saw both Vin and Sazed. Alendi was probably a necessary bump in the road, or something.

To be fair, it is kind of implied that Leras didn't have a choice about Alendi and Vin being choosen as the new host of the Shard and that's something that just happens when the Well fills up.

 

There’s a lot more going on behind the scenes than even the author of these epigraphs knows. Reasons why Vin was chosen, and why the power of Preservation needed a new mind to control it.

The author is right in that Preservation did need someone to control its power, and it did seek for a host in which to invest itself. It began this search with what mind it had left about sixteen years before the return of the power to the Well of Ascension, just as it began a search for a new host before the return of the power the previous time.

Unfortunately, just as Ruin took control and manipulated Alendi, he took control and manipulated Vin.

http://brandonsanderson.com/annotation-mistborn-3-chapter-seventy-nine/

[King's Twit he/him]

We've been considering the intentions of Preservation and Ruin, but there's one individual who we've left out: Hoid

 

I know it isn't confirmed that Hoid founded the Worldbringers, but he is connected to the Worldsingers.

 

QUESTION

Is he [Hoid] a Worldsinger?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He has a relationship with the Worldsingers.

 

and we know that the Worldsingers and Worldbringers have similar origins

 

QUESTION

Worldbringers and Worldsingers -- similar mission?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The similarity of the names is intentional.

QUESTION

Similar origin?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

QUESTION

Did Hoid start them?

BRANDON SANDERSON

That’s a RAFO. That’s a RAFO, but definitely they have a similar origin.

 

I think its reasonable to assume that he was involved in the founding of both groups.

 

If he founded the Worldbringers, he may have founded, or expanded, the Terris religion.

 

If this is true, then I believe that Preservation's goal was to name a successor (Vin/Alendi) who could take up the power at the Well and kill Ruin. I think this is where his plan ends. With Ruin (Ati) gone, the people of Scadrial are safe.

 

The parts of the prophesy relating to a Worldbringer/Keeper would then have come from Hoid.

 

It's fairly widely believed that the goal of Hoid is to reconstruct Adonalsium. This, then, is a very relevant quote from the Terris Prophesies.

 

That which has been sundered must again begin to find its whole

 

Note the phrasing. "Begin to find its whole". If the creation of Harmony was the end-goal, the reuniting of Ruin and Preservation would not be the beginning, it would be the final whole. I think this was actually the first major step in Hoid's plan to rebuild Adonalsium, or it was at least an experiment of Hoid to see if Adonalsium even can be put back together.

 

He may have even been involved in the event which introduced Feruchemy into the Terris bloodline, so that Worldbringers could exist. We know that Lerasium can be used to rewrite your sDNA in ways besides giving access to Allomancy. If there was one person besides Leras who could've known how to do this, it would be Hoid. This could also be how he gained Feruchemy. He taught them how to gain the power, and gained it himself as well.

 

I think I've started to ramble, so I'm going to cut myself off now. Thoughts?

 

 

EDIT: I stumbled upon a WoB which I think supports the idea that the parts of the prophesy which point to a Worldbuilder/Keeper/Sazed came after Preservation trapped Ruin and sacrificed his mind.

 

Originally, the prophesies intended for a person to go take the power every thousand years and become a protector of mankind for a period of time. Someone to keep an eye on Ruin in Preservation's absence and watch over the world as he would have done. Imagine an avatar who arrives every thousand years and lives for their lifetime blessing the people with the power of Preservation, renewing Ruin's prison, and generally being a force for protection.

Edited December 21, 2015 by King's Twit

[Oversleep]

Note the phrasing. "Begin to find its whole". If the creation of Harmony was the end-goal, the reuniting of Ruin and Preservation would not be the beginning, it would be the final whole. I think this was actually the first major step in Hoid's plan to rebuild Adonalsium, or it was at least an experiment of Hoid to see if Adonalsium even can be put back together.

[King's Twit he/him]

"And while I am your friend, please understand that our goals do not completely align. You must not trust yourself with me. If I have to watch this world crumble and burn to get what I need, I will do so. With tears, yes, but I would let it happen."

-Hoid

[King's Twit he/him]

Have we considered that maybe Ruin just changed the prophesies randomly and they just so happened to line up with Sazed?

 

That's not the kind of thing I would put a lot of thought in to, just throw words in here and there, switch a "shoulders" to an "arms", y'know, the usual stuff you do when you're messing with prophesies.

 

Or what if Ruin changed the prophesies to refer to Sazed intentionally to give the Scadriens a sporting chance. He seems like the kind of guy who would want his enemies to get a fair shake before He smothered them in ash.

Edited December 21, 2015 by King's Twit

[Blackhoof]

Actually, no he didn't

He tried as hard as possible to destroy the world, with the power he had. He created a hopeless situation and used his overpowered servants and armies as much as he could.

[King's Twit he/him]

Actually, no he didn't

He tried as hard as possible to destroy the world, with the power he had. He created a hopeless situation and used his overpowered servants and armies as much as he could.

 

Sorry, my post was an attempt at a joke. I guess it didn't work out.