Guessing the unknown surge

[Fifth]

Just so we know what i'm ranting about here is the current state of what we know.

we are talking about surge #9.

 

 

 

 

 

And a few of my pet theories about what the Unknown surge could be.

 

1: Temperature 

2: Density

3: conductivity

4; ductility/flexibility

5: frequency

 

Please throw any ideas or your logic as to why any on my current list are not workable so that  I can compile myself a nice list to go through and I will edit the list as options become available or debunked.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Fifth

[The Count he/him]

Some nice choices here my thoughts:

 

Temperature / Density & Conductivity  are more material properties than forces so I am less inclined toward these.

 

Flexibilty I could get behind but seems too similar to how surface tension is said to operate so I do not think so.

 

Frequency is a nice idea. It is similar to my own thoughts. My favourite guess for the unknown surge has always been Resonance. Which is pretty close to frequency at the end of the day.

 

Will be great once we have a full chart together.

[Aether he/him]

Frequency is a nice idea. It is similar to my own thoughts. My favourite guess for the unknown surge has always been Resonance. Which is pretty close to frequency at the end of the day.

I think Resonance or Frequency or something to that effect would make sense, especially considering the Stonewarden's comments from the "Starfalls" chapter.

[Moogle]

Thunderclasts appear to be monsters made of Order 9, Stone. Order 8 shares this unknown Surge with the Stonewards. The word 'thunder' is compelling. I'm guessing electricity control, magnetism, energy control, sound/sonic control, or something along those lines.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Moogle

[Swimmingly he/him]

It might even be Time - and perhaps one of the orders who used it are the reason divination is so taboo in Vorinism. After all, not all spren are so discerning. This could even be what the law-abiding citizen did to speed up when trying to catch the young thief. Also, "stonewarden" sounds a lot like "stormwarden"- the one class of alethi society that is allowed to violate the taboo of prediction.

[Cromptj he/him]

Time seems to be too overpowered, unless it is just seeing possibilities of the future. I think that magnetism might work a bit too much like Mistborn. I would agree with resonance, or something electrical based. The "thunder" might be a result of the vibrations caused by the resonance.

[Elementalist he/him]

Resonance or frequency sounds good to me. Ties into sound, which has been discussed as a possible focus on Roshar (dawnsingers, a clear sound when soulcasting, humming helps soulcasting). Also ties into waveform conspiracy theories which make my brain ooze out my ears but I'm sure make sense to people much smarter than me. =)

[Fifth]

Some nice choices here my thoughts:

 

Temperature / Density & Conductivity  are more material properties than forces so I am less inclined toward these.

 

Flexibilty I could get behind but seems too similar to how surface tension is said to operate so I do not think so.

 

Frequency is a nice idea. It is similar to my own thoughts. My favourite guess for the unknown surge has always been Resonance. Which is pretty close to frequency at the end of the day.

 

Will be great once we have a full chart together.

 

While I agree your reasons for dismissing Temperature / Density & Conductivity for being properties of matter and not Forces is sound I do want to provide a rebuttal as I  was actually close to ruling out Density for it being for all purposes  identical to Atmospheric pressure just applied all forms of matter (solid,liquid and gas) not just gases. So as far as all the surges being forces is concerned I think Brandon has already broken that rule. In all honesty its gotta be tough to come up with  ten forces as in reality there is only four Real forces in nature the, strong force (what holds the core of atoms together) , the Weak force (what causes radiation) , Gravity & the electromagnetic Force.

 

Going off that as a grounding there is only justifiably two forces out of ten on that chart , Gravity and then Division if you could call that a kind of radiation/atom splitting surge.

 

All we can really go in is if anything would "feel" out of place on that chart....hence density and atmospheric pressure sort of conflict but IMO temperature or conductivity would not seem out of place (to me).

 

Resonance is defiantly one of my favorites at the moment  though, but its coming third  to a tied conductivity or temperature due to me not being able to "visualize" resonance being used other then to yell across a continent or break stuff a la wine glass opera singer style Temperature and Conductivity well you can easily see used for those ...but who knows Brandon undoubtedly has a better imagination then I do... Hell up until I read the Lift interlude I could not have imagined friction being so god dam kick arse !  

 

Anyone got any other fresh ideas for surges that are not on that list?

[hoser he/him]

I've suggested "Communication" in the past.  It would be useful to help the Radiants coordinate.  I have argued that it is happening in the Starfall vision and the Stoneward seems to be doing it without a fabrial.  It wouldn't need to be a surge though, as the spren might be able to facilitate it or it could be an enhanced ability of the plate. 

 

I agree with The Count that flexibility seems to overlap "Surface Tension" functionality.

 

"Strength" is interesting, as it has an analog in the Mistborn series and Dalinar, who is suspected of fitting order 8, seems to demonstrate it in the Chasmfiend scene. 

 

As this is not the Words of Radiance subforum, I would like to see references to WoR content inside spoiler tags.  It's not a problem for me personally, but want to maximize everybody's fun. 

Edited January 10, 2014 by hoser

[Moogle]

I've suggested "Communication" in the past.  It would be useful to help the Radiants coordinate.  I have argued that it is happening in the Starfall vision and

"Strength" is interesting, as it has an analog in the Mistborn series and Dalinar, who is suspected of fitting order 8, seems to demonstrate it in the Chasmfiend scene.

 

Dalinar, if he's in Order 10, which I will never cease to bring up as the most likely possibility for 'Bondsmiths', would have access to the Surface Tension Surge, which doubles as a strengthy Surge. Not that he would even need the Surge, as Shardplate essentially gives you strength itself. I'm very leery on the idea of a strengthy Surge.

 

Surges are based on physical phenomenon. Any Surges based on human things like communication or strength or telepathy don't fit the pattern, to me. I could see a sort of sound-based Surge allowing for long ranged communication, though.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Dalinar, if he's in Order 10, which I will never cease to bring up as the most likely possibility for 'Bondsmiths', would have access to the Surface Tension Surge, which doubles as a strengthy Surge. Not that he would even need the Surge, as Shardplate essentially gives you strength itself. I'm very leery on the idea of a strengthy Surge.

 

Surges are based on physical phenomenon. Any Surges based on human things like communication or strength or telepathy don't fit the pattern, to me. I could see a sort of sound-based Surge allowing for long ranged communication, though.

Well, there's a Surge for growth, which is a distinctly non-fundemental aspect of reality. I think time could still work, letting you speed up your own movements, slow down another's, etc. Around people who can make rocks explode, fly, launch you into space, treat a road like a hockey rink, etc. some minor temporal powers would not be out of place.

[Moogle]

Well, there's a Surge for growth, which is a distinctly non-fundemental aspect of reality. I think time could still work, letting you speed up your own movements, slow down another's, etc. Around people who can make rocks explode, fly, launch you into space, treat a road like a hockey rink, etc. some minor temporal powers would not be out of place.

 

I'm not sure that Growth is not a fundamental aspect of reality in the Cosmere. Things gain sentience on their own (Splinters), after all. The Cosmere just doesn't work anywhere near the same as our own world, and when you add the Cognitive Realm into things, whackiness ensues.

 

I agree that time would not be out of place as a Surge, but we've not heard any stories or legends about the Radiants being able to do it, so I'm leery.

 

Through legends mentioned by various characters, we know the Radiants could:

• Walk on walls/fly (as per Teft). Gravity Surge.
• Teleport great distances (as per Teft and Jasnah). Travel Surge.
• Break stones with a touch (as per Heralds and also Jasnah). Division Surge probably.
• Command or control sunlight (as per Teft). Illumination Surge.
• Heal, using the miracle of Regrowth (as per Dalinar's vision and also a certain interlude). Growth Surge.

These are all flashy, extravagant uses of the powers that were memorable enough to be passed down by common people through legends to Teft and everyone else. Any unknown Surges are going to have to be subtle, not very flashy, hard to understand, or not useful in combat, like the Surface Tension Surge or Friction Surge.  If they're not, we should have heard of them.

 

A Time Surge, if it was anything like Mistborn's time bubbles, would probably be flashy enough and useful enough to enter common legends of the Radiants. We haven't heard of it.

 

I do agree that it's workable, though.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Moogle

[Swimmingly he/him]

I'm not sure that Growth is not a fundamental aspect of reality in the Cosmere. Things gain sentience on their own (Splinters), after all. The Cosmere just doesn't work anywhere near the same as our own world, and when you add the Cognitive Realm into things, whackiness ensues.

I agree that time would not be out of place as a Surge, but we've not heard any stories or legends about the Radiants being able to do it, so I'm leery.

Through legends mentioned by various characters, we know the Radiants could:

• Walk on walls/fly (as per Teft). Gravity Surge.
• Teleport great distances (as per Teft and Jasnah). Travel Surge.
• Break stones with a touch (as per Heralds and also Jasnah). Division Surge probably.
• Command or control sunlight (as per Teft). Illumination Surge.
• Heal, using the miracle of Regrowth (as per Dalinar's vision and also a certain interlude). Growth Surge.

These are all flashy, extravagant uses of the powers that were memorable enough to be passed down by common people through legends to Teft and everyone else. Any unknown Surges are going to have to be subtle, not very flashy, hard to understand, or not useful in combat, like the Surface Tension Surge or Friction Surge. If they're not, we should have heard of them.

A Time Surge, if it was anything like Mistborn's time bubbles, would probably be flashy enough and useful enough to enter common legends of the Radiants. We haven't heard of it.

I do agree that it's workable, though.

Well, besides a guy who can blow rocks up with his hands, a lady who can heal a violently repositioned lung, and a dude that can fly, future sight/accelerated movement can be a little underwhelming. I mean, cool, you just moved ten yards faster than I can move ten inches, but get a load of that dude that just sent an entire squad of unholy terrors thrashing and wheeling into the sky.

[Aether he/him]

Well, besides a guy who can blow rocks up with his hands, a lady who can heal a violently repositioned lung, and a dude that can fly, future sight/accelerated movement can be a little underwhelming. I mean, cool, you just moved ten yards faster than I can move ten inches, but get a load of that dude that just sent an entire squad of unholy terrors thrashing and wheeling into the sky.

You've got a good point, but again, considering that the Stonewarden from the "Starfalls" chapter claimed she would here anything Dalinar said - despite the distance - does make something to the effect of Resonance seem more likely.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Aether

[el_warko he/him]

You could make an argument that growth is a time based surge. As in things grow (age) at a rapid rate or heal very quickly.  

 

Also, I have to disagree about temperature being a physical property. Heat (or the lack thereof) is the movement (and inherent energy) that molecules have and is not dependant on the molecules.  Vis: At absolute zero, molecules have no motion.  Heat capacity is a compounds ability to lose or gain heat and a physical property. That said, don't think it is likely to be the ninth surge.

 

I like frequency / resonance for that.