It's not a Voidbinding Chart

[Stoneward]

In the thread that OP posted in the initial post, I explained that that was the theory I was going with. It is an image of Cultivation, and the safe hand tradition, whether or not that was it's purpose for Cultivation, comes from that image. Apparently those two images are on stained glass windows somewhere, but it has been my belief that that was a clue - not an origin. I don't think they were originally stained glass windows unless they are in the Tranquiline Halls or something like that. Either way I think it was meant to hint that the Vorin religion is based on those charts and many of the traditions have come from drawings and that sort of thing. Pretty sure you aren't looking at Jasnah or Shallan. 

 

Consider me on board, then. I like this theory.

[hoser]

About the safehand.  There is word of Brandon that the tradition originated with something else, so presumably this window was rendered or copied after that to not be obscene (children might see it, ya know).

 

Interview: Dec, 2010

Goodreads WoK Fantasy Book Club Q&A with Brandon Sanderson (Verbatim)

Jon

My burning question for Brandon is did I miss the explanation, world building moment or historical gem that explains why women have a safe hand and why they must keep it covered?

Brandon Sanderson (Goodreads)

No, you haven't missed it. People have asked about this. There will be more explanation in-world as it comes along, but it's for much the same reason that in some cultures in our world you don't show people the bottoms of your feet, and in other cultures showing the top of your head is offensive. It's part of what has grown out of the Vorin culture, and there are reasons for it. One of them has to do with a famous book written by an artist who claimed that true feminine pursuits and arts were those that could be performed with one hand, while masculine arts were those performed with two hands, in a way associating delicacy with women and brute force with men. Some people in Roshar disagree with this idea, but the custom has grown out of that foundational work on masculine and feminine arts. That's where that came from. One aspect of this is that women began to paint one-handed and do things one-handed in upper, higher society. You'll notice that the lower classes don't pay a lot of attention to it—they'll just wear a glove.

As a student of human nature and of anthropology, it fascinates me how some cultures create one thing as being taboo whereas in another culture, the same thing can be very much not taboo. It's just what we do as people.

There's more to it than that, but that will stand for now.

[Bloodfalcon]

 

About the safehand.  There is word of Brandon that the tradition originated with something else, so presumably this window was rendered or copied after that to not be obscene (children might see it, ya know).

 

Interview: Dec, 2010

Goodreads WoK Fantasy Book Club Q&A with Brandon Sanderson (Verbatim)

Jon

My burning question for Brandon is did I miss the explanation, world building moment or historical gem that explains why women have a safe hand and why they must keep it covered?

Brandon Sanderson (Goodreads)

No, you haven't missed it. People have asked about this. There will be more explanation in-world as it comes along, but it's for much the same reason that in some cultures in our world you don't show people the bottoms of your feet, and in other cultures showing the top of your head is offensive. It's part of what has grown out of the Vorin culture, and there are reasons for it. One of them has to do with a famous book written by an artist who claimed that true feminine pursuits and arts were those that could be performed with one hand, while masculine arts were those performed with two hands, in a way associating delicacy with women and brute force with men. Some people in Roshar disagree with this idea, but the custom has grown out of that foundational work on masculine and feminine arts. That's where that came from. One aspect of this is that women began to paint one-handed and do things one-handed in upper, higher society. You'll notice that the lower classes don't pay a lot of attention to it—they'll just wear a glove.

As a student of human nature and of anthropology, it fascinates me how some cultures create one thing as being taboo whereas in another culture, the same thing can be very much not taboo. It's just what we do as people.

There's more to it than that, but that will stand for now.

 

Thanks hoser! It really means the same thing in terms of this thread though. There is really no reason the safe hand in whatever window would narrow the possibilities for any reason. It could be a Vorin interpretation that covers up the hand out of tradition rather than accuracy. I still think it is Cultivation - it always seemed like the safe hand factor of it was unimportant, which I suppose was the cause of that theory in the first place. 

[Isomere]

That artist story is the cultural explanation of why Vorin safehands are covered, but that doesn't rule out a pre-existing influence from this image or something related.

[Bloodfalcon]

Okay. Honestly, I have been on these forums for quite a while now and have not seen this reference, so excuse my tone if I am wrongly claiming to finding it, but I stumbled upon what I think to be these charts described in the book. 
 

"The servant led Shallan to a pair of grand steel doors. The servant bowed and Shallan dismissed her with a nod.

Shallan couldn’t help but admire the beauty of the doors; their exterior was carved in an intricate geometric pattern with circles and lines and glyphs. It was some kind of chart, half on each door."

I mean, right? If I had to describe the charts in a quick sentence, that would be spot on. That is in the doors to the Palanaeum. I'm not saying these are the originals, but I think it is definitely the chart. Not sure why it would be there - one could form a dozen theories on the Palanaeum's former uses or the founder's involvement with the KR. Maybe the Palanaeum was once a HQ for the KR. I don't recall any Karbaranth history right now, but if anyone has an idea, this seems like a small lead. 

Edit:
Alas, I did some more searching for direct quotes and found this thread that mentions it, though there is almost 0 discussion.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Bloodfalcon

[Moogle]

Good catch, Bloodfalcon. I hadn't noticed that.

[Bloodfalcon]

Good catch, Bloodfalcon. I hadn't noticed that.

I'm loving my audiobook reread. I think I catch more while driving than I do reading the words. And we need all the details we can get to support our "whacky theories" 

[The Rooster]

I'm loving my audiobook reread. I think I catch more while driving than I do reading the words. And we need all the details we can get to support our "whacky theories" 

 

I'm trying to figure out timing for a reread but there's so much stuff I have to regular-read first.  I don't know if I'll get one in before WoR.. I mean I've read it 5 times between read reading and audiobook reading but.. It'll just be disappointing if I can't squeeze it in (I think one of the big problems is there's not squeezing the Way of Kings).

[Aoibheann]

Thank you Isomere for posting the symbols!  Much better than what I had found!

 

Wow Bloodfalcon, I hadn't noticed that... I've read the book so many times I've lost count at this point and just did a re-read focusing on Shallan and missed it.  That's a great find.  

 

If there are 3 ways to access the same/similar powers, I wonder if there is a third chart.  Is the chart at the Palanaeum the Heraldic/surge chart, the cultivation/(not)void chart of this thread or something we haven't seen yet?   How long will it take Shallan and Jasnah to realize they need this information? (Does Jasnah already know?)

[Bloodfalcon]

If there are 3 ways to access the same/similar powers, I wonder if there is a third chart.  Is the chart at the Palanaeum the Heraldic/surge chart, the cultivation/(not)void chart of this thread or something we haven't seen yet?   How long will it take Shallan and Jasnah to realize they need this information? (Does Jasnah already know?)

I'm really hoping Shallan has a moment where she needs the information and recalls one of her vivid memories with that in the background or something. Of course.... by then Jasnah might be able to Shadesmar-travel them to the doors with no problem. I think it is relevant that she noticed them, though.

[Aoibheann]

Cultivation and Ruin supposedly are very close together in Intent, though I can't find the WoB. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that because Taravangian's doing some questionable things that Cultivation isn't involved. He did seek out the Old Magic.

 

I know what quote you're talking about and I interpreted it as "Ruin and Cultivation are not as far apart as you would think."  Ruin is an intent toward decay which seems to naturally be a part of Cultivation.  Cultivation seems much more balanced than Ruin is.  I don't know that Cultivation and Odium would naturally get along though.

[Moogle]

I know what quote you're talking about and I interpreted it as "Ruin and Cultivation are not as far apart as you would think."  Ruin is an intent toward decay which seems to naturally be a part of Cultivation.  Cultivation seems much more balanced than Ruin is.  I don't know that Cultivation and Odium would naturally get along though.

 

I've just acquired a new crazy theory: Cultivation being partially about clearing out old rot would fit with her wonderfully and is in line with being close to Ruin. Well, what's Taravangian doing? Getting rid of the old so the new can flourish.

 

Taravangian is Cultivation's champion!

 

(It's not even that insane! Just mostly.)

[Bloodfalcon]

I've just acquired a new crazy theory: Cultivation being partially about clearing out old rot would fit with her wonderfully and is in line with being close to Ruin. Well, what's Taravangian doing? Getting rid of the old so the new can flourish.

 

Taravangian is Cultivation's champion!

 

(It's not even that insane! Just mostly.)

Not insane, but scary 

[hoser]

Woah!  Brilliant!

I've just acquired a new crazy theory: Cultivation being partially about clearing out old rot would fit with her wonderfully and is in line with being close to Ruin. Well, what's Taravangian doing? Getting rid of the old so the new can flourish.

 

Taravangian is Cultivation's champion!

 

(It's not even that insane! Just mostly.)

I don't want it to be true.  I want Cultivation to be about weeding and letting the healthiest plants survive.  Mr. T is destroying the healthiest plants in favor of a parasite.

[Moogle]

Woah!  Brilliant!

I don't want it to be true.  I want Cultivation to be about weeding and letting the healthiest plants survive.  Mr. T is destroying the healthiest plants in favor of a parasite.

 

What healthy plants, exactly? The kings across the world that are constantly fighting battles and in general being unorganized? Dalinar, who's attempt to up the war against the Parshendi a notch may very well be starting the Everstorm?

[hoser]

What healthy plants, exactly? The kings across the world that are constantly fighting battles and in general being unorganized? Dalinar, who's attempt to up the war against the Parshendi a notch may very well be starting the Everstorm?

All effective leadership.  His plan is to become leader by default and build "Very, very strong walls."  Jah Kaved was stable, Alethi leadership is becoming stronger, the Azish had stable government and the Selay seemed stable even if we don't like the way the succession is secured.  When he steps into the vacuum he is creating, there will be no deviating from his twisted plans. 

[Moogle]

All effective leadership.  His plan is to become leader by default and build "Very, very strong walls."  Jah Kaved was stable, Alethi leadership is becoming stronger, the Azish had stable government and the Selay seemed stable even if we don't like the way the succession is secured.  When he steps into the vacuum he is creating, there will be no deviating from his twisted plans. 

• Jah Keved apparently has border skirmishes with the Alethi. Not exactly what you want when you're looking for unity. The other governments might have been fine, I grant. They aren't exactly doing very well, though. Cultivation might be about removing the old, static leadership and allowing something new to flourish, so I think that, even if the Selay are stable, Cultivation pruning their leadership off might not be a terrible choice. (Of course, Taravangian being Cultivation's champion is ridiculously unlikely, but still.)
• Alethi leadership is about to crack and explode. Dalinar's plans are going to fling it into chaos as the highprinces seek to assassinate him. I expect riots and civil war. His manipulation of the king and his plans to disarm the highprinces just screams dictator (not that it's necessarily a bad thing, I'm just noticing a parallel between him and Taravangian). His message about the Almighty being dead is further going to ruin things. He might pull through, but given Navani's journal, I'm not seeing it ending nicely for him.

Taravangian offers effective leadership, knowledge of what's to come, has been preparing for years, and knows he has to train soldiers to stop the Desolation. I think he fits quite nicely into the paradigm of Cultivation pruning away old, rotted things in preparation for the new. Plus, he's old enough that he's going to kick the bucket soon, too, getting rid of his rot, which just fits Cultivation even more. The entirety of Roshar turning over a new leaf, though with more sinister undertones.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Moogle