High prince of geeks he/him Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 So not much to say here, I just think it would be hilarious if Hannah ended up meeting either kaladin or shallen and them massively overpowering her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I think that any two different Knights in a battle would be tricky. Kaladin lashes a chair in Jasnah's direction, chair becomes water. Shallan makes an illusion of herself in one place, then hides in another. It's something I hope Sanderson will do, maybe when Shallan discovers Kaladin killed her brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) But didn't sheWoR spoiler found out when they were in the chasms? Edited December 9, 2015 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Nope, she doesn't know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Lots of spoiler tags. Let's continue. She has probably said the first, and given her ability to Soulcast, maybe the second as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Nope, she doesn't know. WoR spoiler Yeah, Kaladin didn't mention that he killed the Shardbearer Lots of spoiler tags. Let's continue. She has probably said the first, and given her ability to Soulcast, maybe the second as well. We don't know if the number of spoken oaths is correlated with the avalaible abilities - Lift was able to use both Abrasion and Progression (even the Regrowth which was stated to be hard) before speaking the Second Ideal. Kaladin used Reverse Lashing before speaking the First Ideal, Full and Reverse Lashing before speaking the Second and used all of them before speaking the Third. Even getting Shardblade is uknown to be linked with specific Ideal - Kaladin gained it with the Third, as well as squires, while Shallan used it since speaking the First Ideal (probably). We don't know enough about Jasnah to draw conclusions. Edited December 9, 2015 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I suspect Jasnah has said at least 3 Oaths, or whatever the equivalent is in her order, and possibly has progressed further. She seems to not only have the most control, but have been using her abilities for longer than anyone else, at least knowingly and intentionally. I think her time of being broken is entirely or almost entirely in the past by now, though obviously the weight of circumstances is wearing on her, but she is one of the furthest progressed of the Knights Radiant that exist right now, if not the furthest (I don't know if her time recently in Shadesmar helped or hindered relative to Kaladin and Shallan's progressions). jW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Why is everything in spoiler tags, guys? Anyone who is blundering around on forums for a book they haven't read--that has been out for almost two years--thinking there will be no spoilers, is in need of learning a lesson the hard way about how things work in this world. I think that Soulcasting (well, Transformation) was the Surge that Jasnah took to naturally. Transportation would be what she has to work to be able to use, so her ability to Soulcast shouldn't really indicate that she's taken more than the initial oaths. And, really, Kaladin started to get the hang of Gravitation, which didn't come as easily to him as Adhesion, before he took anything beyond the first oath. I don't think that seeing proto-Radiants using their Surges with ease is a good indication of how many oaths they have taken. The thing is, I think that every order is individual in the way that their members progress to the degree that for some of them, facility with Surges would indicate having taken additional oaths (or whatever else is required of its members, since the Lightweavers are probably not the only order who only took the first set of oaths). Other things as well. For example, it seems that Jasnah made some kind of progress in Shadesmar, as she emerges with a Shardblade, something that it doesn't seem like she knew about before. Syl only became a Shardweapon for Kaladin after the second oath. Pattern, on the other hand, became a Shardblade before Shallan had any real skill at all with her Surges. Even though information is scant at the moment, my educated guess is that Jasnah has said at least two oaths. I wouldn't be surprised if she'd also said a third, but my money is on only two, and I think that she uncovered the second during her ordeal in Shadesmar. I think that her cautious, methodical nature as a scholar and her personal history have stood in her way a little (keep in mind, I'm not trying to bad mouth her scholarship; I just think that some of the habits that she has developed may run somewhat contrary to her order's ideals). I mean, Words of Radiance (the in-universe book), the Elsecallers are described as "prodigiously benevolent." Does that sound that Jasnah to you? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 @DSC1 Syl became a Shardblade after the third oath not the second. And about Shallan ans his progression, I suppose that you confused things a bit. Shallan before killing his mother has advanced far into the Lightweaving (at least the third Oaths/truth) but for the Trauma of killing his mother she suppress his bond with Pattern.When years after Pattern return to her, the bonding return like it was (or maybe also further). There is a WoB stated that Shallan at the end of WoR is above Kaladin as "RK Progression" and therefore is a 4-Oath-RK (because I suppose that she isn't a full RK) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I think we can safely assume that nobody has sworn all five oaths because we would have seen living Shardplate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaybalj Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I thought there was a WoB that stated most orders require 3 oaths to get manifest a blade. My suspicion is that Jasnah made a significant amount of progress in shadesmar though, so she probably only just got it. It is plausible however that jasnah had a shardblade before shadesmar, but never drew it simply because she had no way to explain away why she had one, especially one that was so different from other blades. It also would have been near impossible to train in swordsmanship without drawing unwanted attention. ( i dont believe this is the case.... I bet she had to go to shadesmar to find her oaths) I have a hard time imagining a fight between kaladin and jasnah because it seems so out of character for jasnah to let it get to a physical fight with him.... If it were me though... Hmm.. I would try yanking him partway to shadesmar and use the beads to keep him off balance, figuratively and literally? As for kaladin and jasnah meeting..... I wondered if that town she is a week away from is Hearthstone. I cant decide if that would be cool or too convenient. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedshaman Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) @ slaybalj i kind of like the idea of Jasnah going to Hearthstone. But we got to wonder: how would Kaladin handle getting home to find not only another proto-radiant but the sister to the king to boot Edited December 9, 2015 by stonedshaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormlessFox he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Even though information is scant at the moment, my educated guess is that Jasnah has said at least two oaths. I wouldn't be surprised if she'd also said a third, but my money is on only two, and I think that she uncovered the second during her ordeal in Shadesmar. I think that her cautious, methodical nature as a scholar and her personal history have stood in her way a little (keep in mind, I'm not trying to bad mouth her scholarship; I just think that some of the habits that she has developed may run somewhat contrary to her order's ideals). I mean, Words of Radiance (the in-universe book), the Elsecallers are described as "prodigiously benevolent." Does that sound that Jasnah to you? The full quote about benevolence refers to Elsecallers being benevolent so far as helping other Radiant orders communicate with the realm of spren. (I only know cause I recently re-read this part) Via the in book Words of Radiance - Ch. 53 -Perfection: “As to the other orders that were inferior in this visiting of the far realm of spren, the Elsecallers were prodigiously benevolent, allowing others as auxiliary to their visits and interactions; though they did never relinquish their place as prime liaisons with the great ones of the spren; and the Lightweavers and Willshapers both also had an affinity to the same, though neither were the true masters of that realm.” So the Elsecallers are benevolent by being spren ambassadors. Also in regards to Jasnah's power we know nothing of her spren and according to the above quote Elsecallers are the "prime liason with the great ones of the spren". I do find it weird that Jasnah does not ask Shallan what ideal she is on unless she already knew that each order was vastly different in the way they progressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Perhaps Jasnah thought it rude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) Perhaps Jasnah thought it rude. To quote Elxa Dal (Wise Man's Fear): That isn't really a polite question. Well, not impolite, it's just the sort of question you don't ask. Like asking a man how often he makes love to his wife. But, on the other hand...The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows. So Jasnah would have ignored something as irrelevant as being rude or not, if she needed to ask the question. Edited December 10, 2015 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baby he/him Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I believe Brandon said Lightweavers don't speak oaths, instead they speak truths. That's why Shallans power growth is just different from others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaybalj Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 But jasnah has no reason to suspect shallan has said more than one, maybe two oaths given she was one practically there when pattern was pulled into the physical realm. Also, the words of radiance epigraph for chapter 57 indicates that lightweavers have an odd oath progression. Otoh, i bet jasnah was training shallan in a manner more appropriate to an elsecaller than a lightweaver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 he/him Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I really think that something is, or at least was, blocking Jasnah's progression. Sure, the "prodigiously benevolent" quote specifically refers to the Elsecallers serving as go-betweens for Radiants unable to access Shadesmar, but it still implies something about their character that I find almost wholly lacking in Jasnah. The narrative implies that it's there, beneath the surface, but she seems to be protecting herself by maintaining a cold distance from almost everyone. She hardly tells Shallan anything about Radiancy, and I don't think she's really keeping much information back, except perhaps some tidbits that she feels should be kept private between her and Ivory. I think that she really didn't know much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaybalj Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 even more amusing in my opinion would be Jasnah meeting Lift, who seems to exemplify the following quote.... “Ignorance is hardly unusual, Miss Davar. The longer I live, the more I come to realize that it is the natural state of the human mind. There are many who will strive to defend its sanctity and then expect you to be impressed with their efforts" For her part, i expect lift would find Jasnah even more tiresome than Wyndle's explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 even more amusing in my opinion would be Jasnah meeting Lift, who seems to exemplify the following quote.... “Ignorance is hardly unusual, Miss Davar. The longer I live, the more I come to realize that it is the natural state of the human mind. There are many who will strive to defend its sanctity and then expect you to be impressed with their efforts" For her part, i expect lift would find Jasnah even more tiresome than Wyndle's explanations. *Lift finishes off the food as Jasnah talks* "You should listen to her" Wyndle chided. "Whatever," Lift said, "I stopped listening after she said that you weren't a Voidbringer, you were a spren." "I am!" "And then she said you could become a Shardblade." "I can!" "Whatever." Lift inhales some Stormlight and slides away. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakei Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I really think that something is, or at least was, blocking Jasnah's progression. Sure, the "prodigiously benevolent" quote specifically refers to the Elsecallers serving as go-betweens for Radiants unable to access Shadesmar, but it still implies something about their character that I find almost wholly lacking in Jasnah. The narrative implies that it's there, beneath the surface, but she seems to be protecting herself by maintaining a cold distance from almost everyone. She hardly tells Shallan anything about Radiancy, and I don't think she's really keeping much information back, except perhaps some tidbits that she feels should be kept private between her and Ivory. I think that she really didn't know much. I'm pretty sure the latter half of the sentence is more important, it speaks of allowing the orders that were inferior in accessing shadesmar, to come along, and never relinquishing their place as prime liasons with the great ones of the spren. That speaks to me of an arrogance, and well it was prodigiously benevolent to allow the other orders to join them as auxillary on excursions to shadesmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aurik he/him Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Since Jasnah can summon her Shardblade, I have to assume that she is at least to (the equivalent of) the third ideal. Also, since she has been consciously Surgebunding since her father's murder, then it is very possible she has progressed even further. I wonder if she's figured out how to summon living Shardplate? Hmmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaybalj Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Assuming the theory about secondary spren becoming shardplate (windspren for Kaladin and creationspren for Shallan), I don't think we've seen any potential plate-spren around Jasnah, have we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Well Jasnah spent time in Shadesmar. She may discovered very much about the Spren-bond. Maybe also from ancient Radiant Spren with Memories of old Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaybalj Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 *Lift finishes off the food as Jasnah talks* "You should listen to her" Wyndle chided. "Whatever," Lift said, "I stopped listening after she said that you weren't a Voidbringer, you were a spren." "I am!" "And then she said you could become a Shardblade." "I can!" "Whatever." Lift inhales some Stormlight and slides away. heh... though informing Lift that Wyndle can become a shardblade sounds way too practical to be something Jasnah would talk about. She never even trained Shallan to inhale stormlight or mention the ability to use stormlight to heal..... practical application of abilities comes _after_ a full and exhaustive understanding of theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts