KnightGradient Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 She was able to summon Pattern as a Shardblade when she was 8. Kaladin had to swear three Ideals before he could do that with Syl. She had to break, and swear oaths before her mother went psycho. So, when, and how, did Shallan break? 2
Cemci she/her Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Excellent question. We know Shallan's most significant break as the story we know now was her mother's death - it's the event she suppresses quite obviously, and what has had the biggest effect on her family life. However, if we assume that people can't just be born Surgebinders (I think there was a WoB that there needs to be a crack in the psyche to allow the Nahel bond to form), Shallan must have broken before her mother's death. There are hints that when Shallan was a small child, she was already accompanied by Pattern. When she was very young, she drew patterns (drew Pattern?) in the ground of the garden - this was likely before her mother's death, although it's only a fragment of what must have been a drawn-out process that eventually destroyed Shallan's relationship with her mother, leading to the mother trying to kill Shallan because of her Surgebinder abilities/tendencies. However, people are quite superstitious and the Davar house is in rural Jah Keved. Your daughter talking to nobody in particular and seeming fascinated with something so strange could perhaps have led the mother to have all sorts of suspicions about her daughter, from Surgebinding to Voidbinding (Surgebinders hadn't been seen for thousands of years, at that point, I think? Until the Radiants we know now discovered their abilities, nobody knew anything detailed about Surgebinding - the people who saw Szeth almost all died). Maybe the family's history with secret societies plays a role? Shallan's father (and Luesh) was involved with the Ghostbloods, Helaran sought out the Skybreakers, Shallan's mother (and her friend) must have been involved in some way, otherwise the mother likely wouldn't have tried to take such drastic action.
Battar Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 It makes me wonder when we will get answers to these questions if Words of Radiance was Shallan's flashback book
11thorderknight Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I think people are taking the "broken soul" concept a little bit too literally. Just because there's an analogy to Snapping of allomancers doesn't mean that it occurs the same way. We're never told that an individual has to suffer a traumatic event to become properly "broken"; all we know is that "cracks" in the soul allow the spren to form the Nahel bond. My personal interpretation is that the "broken soul" simply means a person whose personality, or moral compass, or life purpose (choose whatever phrase for it you want) is so geared toward one of Honor's facets that they attract the appropriate spren. That individual is "broken" only in the sense that they are so different from the balanced personality of the average Joe that they stand out. All of our main characters exhibit this quite clearly: Kaladin will stick his nose into fights that aren't his to defend others at great personal risk; Jasnah will flip off all of Alethi society to pursue understanding and truth; Shallan will make wisecracks or put on a performance in situations where it gets her in trouble; Szeth sticks to his personal code past all reason simply because that's the rules he swore to obey; etc. All of these people would be called crazy, to some extent, by the "rational" among us. 2
Jondesu he/him Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Maybe the family's history with secret societies plays a role? Shallan's father (and Luesh) was involved with the Ghostbloods, Helaran sought out the Skybreakers, Shallan's mother (and her friend) must have been involved in some way, otherwise the mother likely wouldn't have tried to take such drastic action. Oh my, I just had a realization… What if Shallan's mother and her friend were part of the Skybreakers, and attempted to kill Shallan because she was a proto-Radiant? Just because Nalan might not have approved of the method and time, assuming she hadn't committed a crime, doesn't mean over-zealous followers wouldn't have. And then as a follow-up to that, what if Helaran did seek out the Skybreakers, but not to join them? What if he was seeking answers/revenge against the ones who tried to kill his sister? We don't know much about what Helaran knew, but it does seem that would be within his character if he discovered that (though it's at least implied he still thought his father killed his mother and the friend, so perhaps that's unlikely). jW 2
KnightGradient Posted November 6, 2015 Author Posted November 6, 2015 Well that's a disturbing thought. Was it like some kind of initiation thing when Helaran had to kill Amaram, or did he already have the Skybreakers trust?
Patrick Star Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 I don't think her having pattern so early is anything special. It's just because of her order. Lightweavers are weird, so they don't have oaths past the general radiant oath. Only "truths". About themselves. So a six year old could easily unlock all of their truths, since they'd have nothing to hide from themselves.
Zathoth Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 The possibility is always that Shallans childhood was not as happy as she thinks. 1
Shardbearer he/him Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 This is something I've been wondering about as well. Her earliest flashback was directly after her mother's death, and Patter was "locked away" into the safe as a result of that incident. It's clear she already had a bond at that time. So what was her brokenness? You could argue that all people have a little bit of brokenness to them, but I'm not sure I buy that. 1
Guest Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 I don't think her having pattern so early is anything special. It's just because of her order. Lightweavers are weird, so they don't have oaths past the general radiant oath. Only "truths". About themselves. So a six year old could easily unlock all of their truths, since they'd have nothing to hide from themselves. Not exactly. Brandon did state Shallan was on the lower boundary to get a Nahel bond, so I doubt a child could have pulled it of. She was kinda of a special case. The possibility is always that Shallans childhood was not as happy as she thinks. It has been my assumption as well, though I do not think it was dramatic, but it does not take much to create cracks into a child's soul. This is something I've been wondering about as well. Her earliest flashback was directly after her mother's death, and Patter was "locked away" into the safe as a result of that incident. It's clear she already had a bond at that time. So what was her brokenness? You could argue that all people have a little bit of brokenness to them, but I'm not sure I buy that. It could just be fighting or always arguing parents... or messed attachment link with her mother. It could be her mother did not take care of her so much, so she grew up trying to prove herself to her only to be deemed no worthy of living. Brokenness does not need to entail murder, brutality, slavery and such.
Patrick Star Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 Not exactly. Brandon did state Shallan was on the lower boundary to get a Nahel bond, so I doubt a child could have pulled it of. She was kinda of a special case. I wasn't referring to the Nahel bond. I was just referring to her unlocking subsequent "truths" after getting the bond. Not getting the bond in the first place.
Rakei Posted November 22, 2015 Posted November 22, 2015 Pattern directly tells Shallan that her strong "lies" is what drew him to her, and she has multiple "memory boxes" that she keeps unwanted memories in repressing them to keep from "breaking" I think it might be entirely possible Shallan came from a very broken home from a very early age, much more broken than we've seen so far, and to protect her mind from the reality of her life she dissociated and "lied" so strongly that her very perception of reality warped, which likely drew pattern to her. She then must have said the first words at some point, we haven't seen yet. The weird thing about Patter and Lightweavers seems to be that he can become her shardblade without needing any deeper bond.
Charononus Posted November 22, 2015 Posted November 22, 2015 Pattern directly tells Shallan that her strong "lies" is what drew him to her, and she has multiple "memory boxes" that she keeps unwanted memories in repressing them to keep from "breaking" I think it might be entirely possible Shallan came from a very broken home from a very early age, much more broken than we've seen so far, and to protect her mind from the reality of her life she dissociated and "lied" so strongly that her very perception of reality warped, which likely drew pattern to her. She then must have said the first words at some point, we haven't seen yet. The weird thing about Patter and Lightweavers seems to be that he can become her shardblade without needing any deeper bond. The bond doesn't work that way for the Lightweavers is my understanding. They don't need oaths, they need truths. I agree Shallan is from a very broken home. That's where the main break is. That probably attracted pattern to her at a young age. At that point the Journey before destination oath, assuming it doesn't need exact words, isn't very difficult. It's just a morality system of the ends don't justify the means. Many people can reach that, and if she had to grow up fast ..... Combine that with just needing truths for the rest and I think we have a pretty full explanation.
DreamEternal Posted November 22, 2015 Posted November 22, 2015 I believe that after a Lightweaver is broken, bonds a spren and says the first oath, they already start fully capable if using all their powers, only needing (much) pratice to unlock them. However, the bond rewires their brain in a way it becomes much more capable of deceiving itself and repressing memories, making it very, very easy for them to regress. The truths are how a Lightweaver who regressed rogresses back to where they were. 2
DSC01 he/him Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 I think people are taking the "broken soul" concept a little bit too literally. Just because there's an analogy to Snapping of allomancers doesn't mean that it occurs the same way. We're never told that an individual has to suffer a traumatic event to become properly "broken"; all we know is that "cracks" in the soul allow the spren to form the Nahel bond. My personal interpretation is that the "broken soul" simply means a person whose personality, or moral compass, or life purpose (choose whatever phrase for it you want) is so geared toward one of Honor's facets that they attract the appropriate spren. That individual is "broken" only in the sense that they are so different from the balanced personality of the average Joe that they stand out. All of our main characters exhibit this quite clearly: Kaladin will stick his nose into fights that aren't his to defend others at great personal risk; Jasnah will flip off all of Alethi society to pursue understanding and truth; Shallan will make wisecracks or put on a performance in situations where it gets her in trouble; Szeth sticks to his personal code past all reason simply because that's the rules he swore to obey; etc. All of these people would be called crazy, to some extent, by the "rational" among us. This is something I've been thinking about a lot recently. When I first read Syl's line in WoR, I didn't think for a second that it was anything other than a comment on human nature. In other words, the Knights weren't some kind of special group of superhuman; they were just broken people like everyone else. I was surprised when I saw everyone on the Shard taking it for granted that Syl was referring to something special that happens to all of the KR. I wasn't convinced, but when I saw that WoB about cracks in the spiritweb being necessary to let Investiture in, I decided that I must be wrong. However, the more I think about it, the more it seems to me that my original interpretation was closer to the truth. A happy, well-adjusted person with a perfect life, who never questions social conventions and cultural dogma wouldn't be a good candidate, but they don't necessarily have to have a major trauma in their past, either. 2
Patrick Star Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 I believe that after a Lightweaver is broken, bonds a spren and says the first oath, they already start fully capable if using all their powers, only needing (much) pratice to unlock them. However, the bond rewires their brain in a way it becomes much more capable of deceiving itself and repressing memories, making it very, very easy for them to regress. The truths are how a Lightweaver who regressed rogresses back to where they were. I agree to a certain extent. Being a lightweaver is all about understanding yourself, and accepting who/what you are. In Shallan's case, she was a relatively innocent kid until the whole attempted murder thingamabob. She had no reason to shut down and try to deceive herself... so she didn't. And because of this, she had at least some truths unlocked from the get-go. I'd imagine that a good amount of lightweavers start out with at least one truth unlocked, as it would take something SUPER traumatic (like your own mother trying to kill you) to cause a mental breakdown large enough to shut off all 4 truths.
Guest Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I agree to a certain extent. Being a lightweaver is all about understanding yourself, and accepting who/what you are. In Shallan's case, she was a relatively innocent kid until the whole attempted murder thingamabob. She had no reason to shut down and try to deceive herself... so she didn't. And because of this, she had at least some truths unlocked from the get-go. I'd imagine that a good amount of lightweavers start out with at least one truth unlocked, as it would take something SUPER traumatic (like your own mother trying to kill you) to cause a mental breakdown large enough to shut off all 4 truths. My take are Shallan was just too young to be a Radiant. Brandon said she was on the lower threshold in terms of age. I sincerely believe her age was a hindrance. Had she been older, more mature, her ordeal would have likely not resulted in Pattern's near death.
Recommended Posts