The Lord Ruler and Sleep

[Yata]

Remember that Marsh is "just" 340 years old, that the Inquisitor had a longed lifespan and we don't even know if he lived all this years or he put himself in stasis for long time.

 

But also if he lived all the years, compounding youth to stay alive is an exponential cost process. Maybe he just use a more pragmatic method to gain Immortality. Rashek had the need to be always youth an his best years to mantain the godhood. Marsh maybe stays quite all time very very old to save Youth.

 

Adding to this, if he may burn Cadmius, he may save more and more Youth, putting himself in stasis.

[Cadmium]

if he may burn Cadmius, he may save more and more Youth, putting himself in stasis.

clarifying. Anything inside a cadmium bubble moves slower relative to time outside the bubble. It could work as a stasis field, but wouldn't give advantage in storing youth.

if you have zero days of age stored, begin to fill at 50% and drop a cadmium bubble bubble for an hour outside but 1 minute inside, you don't leave with 30 minutes of youth, you leave with 30 seconds of youth.

But that just makes the math easy. You probably can't store at more than a 75% of normal rate or such.

The effect would be negligible compared to the cadmium bubble or compounding other effects.

[Cadmium]

They actually grow taller than they used to be, and their voices go all gravelly. Not to mention the bloodlust.

i can't explain the height change (lifts in shoes like Tom Cruise?)

But the gravelly voice might be due to spikes interfering with their airway or vocal chords

The bloodlust is certainly due to Ruin's influence.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Cadmium

[Moogle]

Adding to this, if he may burn Cadmius, he may save more and more Youth, putting himself in stasis.

 

Unfortunately for Marsh, this trick won't work. He's not a Mistborn, and would need a spike granting him Allomantic cadmium. I don't think Harmony'd let him kill people for new spikes...

[killersquirrel59]

Compounding Gold would definitely help. It would nip most diseases in the bud. However, Wayne notes how much more difficult it is to deal with disease using Feruchemical gold. Also, eventually age will still catch up with you regardless of Feruchemical gold used. This would account for the WoB listed above that says "slightly longer lifespans", but certainly does not give any evidence for abnormally long ones to reach the levels we are talking about.

[natc]

i can't explain the height change (lifts in shoes like Tom Cruise?)

But the gravelly voice might be due to spikes interfering with their airway or vocal chords

The bloodlust is certainly due to Ruin's influence.

Between granting sentience and turning skin loose and blue using only strength spikes, hemalurgy does weird things to bodies.

[Yata]

clarifying. Anything inside a cadmium bubble moves slower relative to time outside the bubble. It could work as a stasis field, but wouldn't give advantage in storing youth.

 

I would say that if Marsh keep a Cadmium bubble up for a decent amount of time he would spare Youth and Atium.

 

Example:

If he use a Cadmium bubble to make a day only 20 hours to him. After a day, he consume youth for only 20 hour. With the same routine he uses 20 years of youth to live 24 years and 200 years of youth to live 240 years.

You can't say that is a very good way to limit the Atium cost of Immortality. And of course the rate of Apparent Time/Real Time may be greater.

 

@Moogle After writing the post, I thought about that and I suppose that Harmony may give him a full set of Ability if want. Marsh is a powerfull tool/ servant/friend/ecc... and He maybe give him the ability to survive. And of course if Harmony can put together an Allomancy-Machine, he could give to Marsh a chance without give powers.

[Charononus]

I can't remember was there any mention of what harmonium does in the ars arcanum? Perhaps something is being done that way as well.

[Voidus]

I can't remember was there any mention of what harmonium does in the ars arcanum? Perhaps something is being done that way as well.

Nope, nor has Brandon stated it at all.

[Tarion]

Unfortunately for Marsh, this trick won't work. He's not a Mistborn, and would need a spike granting him Allomantic cadmium. I don't think Harmony'd let him kill people for new spikes...

Well you say that.  But where did he get a Feruchemical Atium spike?

I mean, I know he killed a load of Feruchemists in WoA, but of all the F spikes, Atium had to be at the bottom of Ruin's list, considering they were in the process of ending the world.  It literally served no purpose and there were plenty of Inquisitors needing the more important spikes.  

[Moogle]

I mean, I know he killed a load of Feruchemists in WoA, but of all the F spikes, Atium had to be at the bottom of Ruin's list, considering they were in the process of ending the world.  It literally served no purpose and there were plenty of Inquisitors needing the more important spikes.  

 

Ruin likely had plans to destroy other planets, in which case making his favored servants immortal would have been a good plan so they could infiltrate. He very reasonably thought he would win his battle on Scadrial, and was probably planning for the future when it didn't harm his chances in the present.

 

Nobody even knew about cadmium, nor could they refine it. Killing Mistborn to get spikes for a metal nobody can make is not something I see Ruin doing. Mistborn were a rare resource, and they needed to be killed to get Allomantic duralumin spikes.

 

And that would imply Ruin knew about cadmium - Allomancy isn't his system, I see no reason to assume he knew more about its inner workings than everyone else on Scadrial.

[Windrunner]

Eh, The Lord Ruler using the Well granted him an instinctive knowledge of Hemalurgy, I'm sure Ruin knows Allomancy just as well.

[Moogle]

Eh, The Lord Ruler using the Well granted him an instinctive knowledge of Hemalurgy, I'm sure Ruin knows Allomancy just as well.

 

I was under the impression that Hemalurgical knowledge was part of Ruin "whispering" to TLR, but I think you might be right on reflection. It's not entirely clear.

 

Epigraphs:

Allomancy was, indeed, born with the mists. Or, at least, Allomancy began at the same time as the mists' first appearances. When Rashek took the power at the Well of Ascension, he became aware of certain things. Some were whispered to him by Ruin; others were granted to him as an instinctive part of the power.

One of these was an understanding of the Three Metallic Arts. He knew, for instance, that the nuggets of metal in the Chamber of Ascension would make those who ingested them into Mistborn. These were, after all, fractions of the very power in the Well itself.

...

Each spike, positioned very carefully, can determine how the recipient's body is changed by Hemalurgy. A spike in one place creates a monstrous, near-mindless beast. In another place, a spike will create a crafty—yet homicidal—Inquisitor.

Without the instinctive knowledge granted by taking the power at the Well of Ascension, Rashek would never have been able to use Hemalurgy. With his mind expanded, and with a little practice, he was able to intuit where to place spikes that would create the servants he wanted.

[Edgedancer]

How would Ruin have whispered to him, if he didn’t spike himself?

[Yata]

How would Ruin have whispered to him, if he didn’t spike himself?

During the Ascension I suppose there isn't any need of Spike. They was almost equals (for a short time).

But I suppose that Rashek gained the Hemalurgy knowledge simply with his expansed knowledge and Ruin simply put some "push" to use it.

 

We know of course that Rashek knew about the Hemalurgy's weakness.

 

After the Ascension, we don't know if be a Sliver put you in a "easy chat" with a Spiritual bein (Shard)

Edited November 9, 2015 by Yata

[Moogle]

How would Ruin have whispered to him, if he didn’t spike himself?

 

As Yata says, Vin had no problem hearing Ruin. TLR wouldn't have either, I imagine.

[Edgedancer]

As Yata says, Vin had no problem hearing Ruin. TLR wouldn't have either, I imagine.

I don't think that even Rashek would have been stupid enough to do the thing the evil god that wants to murder all of them tell him to do with no further mind manipulation, given that the thing could be lying.

[Moogle]

I don't think that even Rashek would have been stupid enough to do the thing the evil god that wants to murder all of them tell him to do with no further mind manipulation, given that the thing could be lying.

 

He didn't necessarily do what the evil god told him to do. It's more that the evil god gave him knowledge, and predicted the ways in which he'd use it. Rashek didn't strike me as the type (at least originally) to show restraint in using knowledge to his own ends.

[Edgedancer]

He didn't necessarily do what the evil god told him to do. It's more that the evil god gave him knowledge, and predicted the ways in which he'd use it. Rashek didn't strike me as the type (at least originally) to show restraint in using knowledge to his own ends.

Sure but if the Well didn't give him additional knowledge about how Hemalurgy works then there was no way to know if for example Ruin could take control of Inquisitors even while in prison or other risks and I for one wouldn't like just having Ruins word for that.

[Yata]

Sure but if the Well didn't give him additional knowledge about how Hemalurgy works then there was no way to know if for example Ruin could take control of Inquisitors even while in prison or other risks and I for one wouldn't like just having Ruins word for that.

I suppose that Ruin can't take control of the Inquisitor while in prison if Rashek was alive.

 

All the Inquisitor was under the controll of TLR and probably Ruin was too weak (while in prison) to take the control. 

 

Therefore Rashek just thought that himself was a right Safe-plan to avoid that Ruin may use the Hemalurgy's Weakness. After all from the point of view of TLR, if He died Scadrial was 100% destroyed.

[Edgedancer]

I suppose that Ruin can't take control of the Inquisitor while in prison if Rashek was alive.

 

All the Inquisitor was under the controll of TLR and probably Ruin was too weak (while in prison) to take the control. 

 

Therefore Rashek just thought that himself was a right Safe-plan to avoid that Ruin may use the Hemalurgy's Weakness. After all from the point of view of TLR, if He died Scadrial was 100% destroyed.

Yes but he would still need to know exactly how Hemalurgy works to make that call and I'm sorry but the evil deity whose escape plan you just messed up is not a reliable source. Meaning that either the Well did give him extra knowledge on the topic or Rashek trusted Ruin without a doubt to not have some trick when giving the one person between him and freedom the key to more power.

[Yata]

Yes but he would still need to know exactly how Hemalurgy works to make that call and I'm sorry but the evil deity whose escape plan you just messed up is not a reliable source. Meaning that either the Well did give him extra knowledge on the topic or Rashek trusted Ruin without a doubt to not have some trick when giving the one person between him and freedom the key to more power.

Ah Maybe I don't explain my point clear.

I think that Rashek obtain all the knowledge about the Metallic Arts through the Well and Preservation's power. Then Ruin whispered him to push him in using the Hemalurgy to build his empire. But without give Rashek a chance to understand that this thought wasn't his own.

Probably the only Hemalurgyc use that Rashek had planned during his Ascension was the creation of the Kandra through the Mistwraith. But a dozen of Shapeshifter wasn't a great menace to him and off course a Kandra is uncontrable by Ruin while he was trapped.

[Edgedancer]

Ah Maybe I don't explain my point clear.

I think that Rashek obtain all the knowledge about the Metallic Arts through the Well and Preservation's power. Then Ruin whispered him to push him in using the Hemalurgy to build his empire. But without give Rashek a chance to understand that this thought wasn't his own.

Probably the only Hemalurgyc use that Rashek had planned during his Ascension was the creation of the Kandra through the Mistwraith. But a dozen of Shapeshifter wasn't a great menace to him and off course a Kandra is uncontrable by Ruin while he was trapped.

Ah yes, that thought I can get behind.

[Voidus]

I suppose that Ruin can't take control of the Inquisitor while in prison if Rashek was alive.

 

All the Inquisitor was under the controll of TLR and probably Ruin was too weak (while in prison) to take the control. 

 

Therefore Rashek just thought that himself was a right Safe-plan to avoid that Ruin may use the Hemalurgy's Weakness. After all from the point of view of TLR, if He died Scadrial was 100% destroyed.

Notably Ruin did influence at least one Inquisitor while he was still trapped.

[Yata]

Notably Ruin did influence at least one Inquisitor while he was still trapped.

Sure but at that time TLR was dead and any "anchor" he had on the Inquisitor gone.

It would be interesting to know if any Koloss was under Ruin's control before its release. But I suppose that a Koloss isn't enough Spiked to control while in prison (Marsh seems only partially dominated and he had 11 Spike at that time).