Is Syl special, and what could that mean?

[Lookalike]

I believe Syl was bonded to one of the original Radiants but escaped the recreance. She has "helped men kill before", and if Kaladin dies she will "go back to being stupid again". In critical reading, the use of "again" is significant. Without "again" the passage retains the meaning that death would cause Syl to go stupid, so the addition implies that this has happened before, likely multiple times. Unlike other spren, Syl has never (I believe) metioned the cognative realm. As Syl regains her memory it becomes clear that she's hiding, or withholding, information from Kaladin.

Syl displays the ability to change form to a greater degree than other spren. Syl is currently the only Honorspren, having defied the Stormfather. As of WoR other spren had been described as deciding within their Orders, Honorspren seem to be directly ruled. Growth(?) Spren seem to follow the nightwatcher, but it is not as direct a relationship.

If Syl was bonded to a Radiant that died before the recreance she would be among the oldest "living" highspren. With what we know of society in the cognative realm Honorspren and Cryptics are among the highest orders. Syl describes herself as "a piece of a god" and "spirit of nobility". So, we now have indication that Honorspren may be unique among Spren(splinters of Honor), and Syl is likely unique among honorspren.

Honorspren are additionally directly linked to Tanavast and Jezrien furthering their significance. WoB states splintering is not permanent.

While it's still early, Kaladin seems to be displaying some ability and traits beyond that of other radiants. My head theory is that having bonded one of the two "active" splinters of Honor he is able to draw more power than those of the past. I think it's also interesting that the only two active splinters have now been bound. "Unite them" is highly ambiguous, could further meaning be to reunite honor? From the start it was stated a champion on must be chosen to challenge Odium. Kaladin is the primary protagonist at this point, and I believe Syl may be noble among the honorspren. Could we be seeing the first steps in a reformed Honor?

Edited October 26, 2015 by Lookalike

[Yata]

To me Syl is a Standard Honorspren. It's possible for her to be the spren of an old Radiant but to me this doesn't give to her any "outside the standard".

The sentence "go back to being stupid again" may simply refer to the mindless condition of any Spren in the Physical Realm.

The "a piece of god" is exactly the same thing of "I am a Splinter" and any Spren of Roshar are "a piece of god".

About the other things, we saw that any type of Spren had it's own "type of manifestation". we can't tell much about, unless that Rock know that he can see the spren also while they are hidden, therefore He meet other spren capable of Hidding from the Human.

 

In what Kaladin is "beyond the other radiant" ?

[TwelfthOfSnackTime]

I never considered that Tanavast saying 'unite them' could be taken to mean the splinters. If Brandon has said that it was possible to re-unite a splintered shard it could mean that he is planning on doing that in an upcoming book. Honor could very well be that shard, at this point it could only be one of four. IF that happens it won't be until the end of the Stormlight series, or at least the Semi-End halfway through.

 

On the other hand, how could Honor know he was a) going to be splintered and not just killed and have his shard picked up a la Preservation style? And b ) that he could get Humpty Dumpty back together again? 

 

It's an interesting theory but we don't have enough evidence yet to speculate at this point.

Edited October 27, 2015 by TwelfthOfSnackTime

[Blaze1616]

In WoR Pattern speaks to something similar to this:

 

"Pattern" she said softly, clutching a mug of warmed wine, "I'm not a Radiant, right?"

"I do not think so," he said. "Not yet. There is more to do, I believe, though I cannot be certain."

"How can you not know?"

"I was not me when the Knights Radiant existed. It is complex to explain. I have always existed. We are not 'born' as men are, and we cannot truly die as men do. Patterns are eternal, as is fire, as is the wind. As are all spren. Yet, I was not in this state. I was not...aware."

"You were a mindless spren?" Shallan said. "Like the ones that gather around me when I draw?"

"Less than that," Pattern said. "I was...everything. In everything. I cannot explain it. Language is insufficient. I would need numbers."

Words of Radiance by Brandon Sanderson. Chapter 75

 

Underline and bold emphasis are mine.

 

Aside from the clear evidence that firespren likely have a higher version as well (probably whatever bonds for Dustbringers), this is just something I thought you might find interesting. There's also something else, later on in the same conversation.

 

Stormfather. Shallan pulled the blanket around her closer. "An entire people, all killed?"

"Not just one people," Pattern said, solemn. "Many. Spren with minds were less plentiful then, and the majorities of several spren peoples were all bonded. There were very few survivors. The one you call Stormfather lived. Some others. The rest, thousands of us, were killed when the event happened. You call it the Recreance."

Words of Radiance by Brandon Sanderson. Chapter 75

 

Now I'm not sure if the word "less" should actually be "more", as it seems to contradict the history, but regardless this makes it sound like none of the bonded spren made it.

 

Anyways, I don't really have anything to throw in to the conversation, but I recalled those quotes and thought they'd be interesting to consider.

[DreamEternal]

Now I'm not sure if the word "less" should actually be "more", as it seems to contradict the history, but regardless this makes it sound like none of the bonded spren made it.

Anyways, I don't really have anything to throw in to the conversation, but I recalled those quotes and thought they'd be interesting to consider.

You are neglecting the possibility that intelligent spren of all types became more common after Honor's splintering, and that Syl wasn't bonded at the time, but the only Cryptics that weren't bonded were the ones who never left the Cognitive(wich makes sense, since they are very limited when it comes to changing). Edited October 28, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[Rockbud]

There is a scene in WoR (I think the first time Shallan and Pattern talk inside the Wagon on the way to the shattered plains) where he mentions (something like) a lot of Spren being unbonded and retreating to the Cognitive realm, while others died.

I'll try find the quote, I may be wrong...

[DSC01]

"Less" is definitely correct--not a typo. The spren from before Tanavast's death were Splinters that he (probably) intentionally broke from his Shard. However, when Rayse killed him, his Shard was seriously Splintered, so now there are tons of spren running around.

 

I doubt that this is news to you, Blaze. I'm guessing that it's the "with minds" part that is causing you to wonder. Although there is the suggestion that a bond is necessary to give the spren a mind, I don't think that this applies to all types of spren. Wyndle had a mind of some sort before he was bonded. Knowing what we do about Splinters, it is pretty unlikely that there would be all of the pieces of the Shard drifting about that never gain sapience.  Also, I think that this reveals that there are probably a ton of nascent Nahel bonds out there that we don't know about.

[CJ Feboris]

I have always thought Syl had just a little too much knowledge, if a bit obfuscated through living unbounded. It is quite possible that her knight died previously and she was able to "escape" due to her oaths remaining in tact. I am pretty sure that death does not break the oaths. This is one possible explanation for why she would be able to know about "helping men to kill people before." It seems very personal in those sequences and not something abstract, I think Syl has been bonded before.

[Blaze1616]

I doubt that this is news to you, Blaze. I'm guessing that it's the "with minds" part that is causing you to wonder. Although there is the suggestion that a bond is necessary to give the spren a mind, I don't think that this applies to all types of spren. Wyndle had a mind of some sort before he was bonded. Knowing what we do about Splinters, it is pretty unlikely that there would be all of the pieces of the Shard drifting about that never gain sapience.  Also, I think that this reveals that there are probably a ton of nascent Nahel bonds out there that we don't know about.

 

You are correct, and it confuses me because he seems to be talking about two different types of spren intelligence in that same paragraph. As you note, he's likely talking about spren with minds in Shadesmar in that first part, but he's clearly talking about bonded spren in the second.

 

It's also possible that, because it's very likely a larger percentage of the populace was well educated in the time before the Recreance, the average intelligence improved the quality of Shadesmar, and the spren as well.