Bloodfalcon he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 It's hard to say. It might help to have the relevant quotes: Note that it is westward of Alethela and not necessarily in the west. Some theorize it was in Shinovar, however. Here, we see Jasnah say Urithiru was not in Natanatan, which is now called the Shattered Plains. She may be lying, or misdirecting Shallan, or any number of things. However, the Shattered Plains are south-east of Alethkar, and apparently Urithiru was to the west of Alethkar, so I feel that Jasnah's conclusion that Urithiru cannot be the Shattered Plains is correct. The sheer distances involved are a clue, I think. 'Direct method' implies there was a way other than walking hundreds of miles, unless Nohadon took a very roundabout route. Here is a map. If we knew where Abamabar was, it would be enormously helpful. In any case, going from Somewhere to Kholinar to Veden City seems impossible without some sort of teleportation. I would guess, based on the complaints of tariffs, that all the major cities were connected to Urithiru through "Oathgates" or some other thing. Once you went to Urithiru, the Radiants taxed you (with huge tariffs) for moving goods through it, and then you could go to any other city. In summary, I don't know where Urithiru is. Our only evidence is 'west of Alethela' and 'within hundreds of miles of Abamabar'. Abamabar may be where Nohadon's kingdom was, but apparently Kholinar was still around. This is from Dalinar's vision with Nohadon. It seems Nohadon's city was Kholinar, which makes me wonder if it was was known as Abamabar in ages past. In any case, everywhere west of Alethkar seems to be explored/inhabited. It seems odd that Urithiru would have vanished. Here's some possibilities: Urithiru was in Shadesmar, the place Jasnah and Shallan go. Problem: this is not 'west' of Alethkar. Advantage: It explains why no one lives there now. Also, teleportation apparently involves Shadesmar (according to Brandon). Urithiru was in Aimia. Aimia was 'scourged', which could be because Urithiru was there and people were turning against the Radiants. Problem: people know about Aimia, why is Urithiru considered a myth? Advantage: Well, it's about as west as you can go. Urithiru is currently underwater in the Reshi Sea. Problem: We don't know if Roshar is a stable landmass or not. Advantage: It is just westward of Alethkar, and would explain why people think it's myth. It's also close to the Purelake, which may be Cultivation or Honor's Shardpool. Hopefully this gives you some ideas, Rade. This was a great post and I am quoting it to both revive this topic and bring a great collection of information to the front of conversation again on any Urithiru questions. Honestly, I didn't read the last two pages of this thread, but I did want to make a few points on this subject while it's on my mind. More evidence of being able to get there easily is the Radiant in Dalinar's vision telling him to come to Urithiru if he felt like training. The person Dalinar was living through was basically a peasant. I don't think the Radiant would have suggested it if it took some outrageous fee, or was inaccessible except through entering Shadesmar. The Oathgates you suggested would work, especially with their catchy names, but I think they'd have been hinted at somehow. I have one more bit to add, and that is to say that we should take any information from the visions with some hesitance. The Radiant tells Dalinar what year it is, and Dalinar doesn't even understand the system of dating (there may be multiple meanings to this, but I'm referring to the one that involves calendars). That being said, when one of the visions mentions something being to the west, I don't think we can assume that directional terms are the same either. It is a pretty weak argument, yes, but it is possible the directions got mixed up as easily as the years. I would favor the theory that the land of Roshar has shifted constantly since the time of the visions, but I think I recall a WoB that negates that.... I'll try to find it. Anyway, I have no clue where Urithiru is, nor do I really care; if they find it somewhere completely unseen by readers or in another realm or planet somehow, there is no use guessing. and if they find it on Roshar, it will likely be one of the cities we know of, and at that point it is not really all that special. The only exciting places we could guess at would be the Shattered Plains or Shinovar, as the SP would need to be cleaned or transformed back into the city it was. Urithiru in Shinovar would need to be rediscovered by the vast majority of the world, and the secret would be out. That is not to say that the other locations mentioned above wouldn't be exciting, it just doesn't leave us a lot to theorize over, so I'm just waiting. I say lets let Jasnah get really powerful over 2 more books, then when we have all the KR together, she goes and Soulcasts the entire purelake to air, and the city is at the bottom. It could be that crazy.
Swimmingly he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 This was a great post and I am quoting it to both revive this topic and bring a great collection of information to the front of conversation again on any Urithiru questions. Honestly, I didn't read the last two pages of this thread, but I did want to make a few points on this subject while it's on my mind. More evidence of being able to get there easily is the Radiant in Dalinar's vision telling him to come to Urithiru if he felt like training. The person Dalinar was living through was basically a peasant. I don't think the Radiant would have suggested it if it took some outrageous fee, or was inaccessible except through entering Shadesmar. The Oathgates you suggested would work, especially with their catchy names, but I think they'd have been hinted at somehow. I have one more bit to add, and that is to say that we should take any information from the visions with some hesitance. The Radiant tells Dalinar what year it is, and Dalinar doesn't even understand the system of dating (there may be multiple meanings to this, but I'm referring to the one that involves calendars). That being said, when one of the visions mentions something being to the west, I don't think we can assume that directional terms are the same either. It is a pretty weak argument, yes, but it is possible the directions got mixed up as easily as the years. I would favor the theory that the land of Roshar has shifted constantly since the time of the visions, but I think I recall a WoB that negates that.... I'll try to find it. Anyway, I have no clue where Urithiru is, nor do I really care; if they find it somewhere completely unseen by readers or in another realm or planet somehow, there is no use guessing. and if they find it on Roshar, it will likely be one of the cities we know of, and at that point it is not really all that special. The only exciting places we could guess at would be the Shattered Plains or Shinovar, as the SP would need to be cleaned or transformed back into the city it was. Urithiru in Shinovar would need to be rediscovered by the vast majority of the world, and the secret would be out. That is not to say that the other locations mentioned above wouldn't be exciting, it just doesn't leave us a lot to theorize over, so I'm just waiting. I say lets let Jasnah get really powerful over 2 more books, then when we have all the KR together, she goes and Soulcasts the entire purelake to air, and the city is at the bottom. It could be that crazy. Except the purelake is ankle-to-waist deep. And Soul casting the entire purelake? That might just irk the locals a little, and thought they seem silly and peacefully - as the Rothfussian saying goes "There are three things a wise man fears: something, a moonless night, and the anger of a gentle man"
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Except the purelake is ankle-to-waist deep. And Soul casting the entire purelake? That might just irk the locals a little, and thought they seem silly and peacefully - as the Rothfussian saying goes "There are three things a wise man fears: something, a moonless night, and the anger of a gentle man" Ah, but that is what is so great about Urithiru --- it is only ankle-to-waist high!!! No but really, I thought that's just because that is where they were standing when they described it.
Swimmingly he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Ah, but that is what is so great about Urithiru --- it is only ankle-to-waist high!!! No but really, I thought that's just because that is where they were standing when they described it. OK?
Shardlet he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 I think Blood is referring to the inordinately large fortress of obsidian that apparently once was but is no longer plainly visible in the Purelake.
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 I think Blood is referring to the inordinately large fortress of obsidian that apparently once was but is no longer plainly visible in the Purelake. Yeah and then I made a bad joke.
shadewolf Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 People go read the book synopsis found on Audible, it references shallan to be tasked to look for Urithiru in the shattered plains.
callumke he/him Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 People go read the book synopsis found on Audible, it references shallan to be tasked to look for Urithiru in the shattered plains. No, its says "The war with the Parshendi will move into a new, dangerous phase, as Dalinar leads the human armies deep into the heart of the Shattered Plains in a bold attempt to finally end it. Shallan will come along, hoping to find the legendary, perhaps mythical, city of Urithiru, which Jasnah believes holds a secret vital to mankind’s survival on Roshar." That is, Shallan hopes to find Urithiru there. It doesn't even say that Jasnah believes it to be there. My guess is that the ruins the Parshendi live in was the capital of the Silver Kingdom on Natanatan. It may however, contain an Oathgate or somesuch with will allow Urithiru to be found (probably on the Horneater Peaks). 1
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 The Horneater Peaks are actually a location I hope we never get to see. Some things are better off left to their quick descriptions and the imagination.
Swimmingly he/him Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 The Horneater Peaks are actually a location I hope we never get to see. Some things are better off left to their quick descriptions and the imagination.Why the peaks, though? I want to see Rock walk into his hometown clad in Shardplate like a boss.
Asha'man Logain Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 The Rothfussian quote is "three things a wise man fears, the sea in storm, a moonless night, and the anger of a gentle man." The moonless night in reference to ease of passing into the Fae, the sea in storm seems to refer to Devi's Alar, and the anger of a gentle man seems self explanatory.
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Why the peaks, though? I want to see Rock walk into his hometown clad in Shardplate like a boss. I just want to see him come back a hero with his people following him into battle or something. Or at least, him directing them to it, as he doesn't fight. Fantasy authors like to spend a lot of time teaching main characters about tribal cultures that are so different from their own (Jordan w/ Aiel, Rothfuss w/Adem, the list goes on...) and I really would kind of like to just keep it where Rock is amused by other characters actions, and we are amused by Rock. There is so much else going on, I really don't want to get deep into that culture, for starters. But also I'd just like to keep my image of it. We know they are there. They don't really do much right now. It's ok to not explore every location mentioned and still have it tie in eventually (AKA we lose Rock for a bit but he comes back like Aragorn with a ghost army).
The Rooster he/him Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Why the peaks, though? I want to see Rock walk into his hometown clad in Shardplate like a boss. This thing... Is beneath him. He is cook! 1
hoser he/him Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 "If you suggest this thing again, you will feel a kick from my big Unkalaki feet on your foolish lowlander chull!" 1
TomR Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) First time post here, hope it's okay that I jump in. My own theory is that Urithiru is near the Valley, in the mountains of what used to be Makabakam, but I admit my reasons beg the question a bit. First, I'm assuming that the story of Parasaphri and Naphris is really referring to Cultivation and Honor, that it's an allegory for her creating the spren capable of the nahel bond/Surgebinding through Splinters of her and Honor's power, and that the ten gems associated with the Heralds are therefore the so-called Seedstones. Second, that the Valley and the Nightwatcher are linked to Cultivation and that she's still close to wherever Honor died, thus "the place nearest to Honor." Beyond that, the Valley is roughly in the center of the continent, which would be useful if the Oathgates/transportation have a limited range (which I realize we have no reason to believe at this point), while also being westward of old Alethela. Plus, the Valley is another place that we've heard is difficult to access-- it sounds like not everyone can find it and you can only go once. Finally, if instead of a floating city, Urithiru is just built high enough on a mountain, you couldn't walk there. A lot of assumptions, I know, and less real evidence than the Shattered Plain theory, but the preview chapters just inspired a re-read and I couldn't help speculating Edited January 17, 2014 by TomR 6
Asha'man Logain Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Welcome TomR, and please have an introductory upvote!
hoser he/him Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) There is quite a bit of interesting speculation about Urithiru if you follow the link in my sig. IMO, it is worth it for Windrunner's great OP. First time post here, hope it's okay that I jump in. My own theory is that Urithiru is near the Valley, in the mountains of what used to be Makabakam, but I admit my reasons beg the question a bit. .. A lot of assumptions, I know, and less real evidence than the Shattered Plain theory, but the preview chapters just inspired a re-read and I couldn't help speculating I like the connection to the Origins of the Makabaki story. I hadn't seen that before. Your location has the advantage of not really being in any country. If kings are to meet in a city, they might not want it to be under another king's control. Welcome TomR, and please have an introductory upvote! What Asha'man said! Edited January 17, 2014 by hoser
TomR Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Thanks for the welcome guys! There is quite a bit of interesting speculation about Urithiru if you follow the link in my sig. IMO, it is worth it for Windrunner's great OP. I like the connection to the Origins of the Makabaki story. I hadn't seen that before. Your location has the advantage of not really being in any country. If kings are to meet in a city, they might not want it to be under another king's control. That Urithuru thread was great, thanks for pointing it out! I may be overthinking the Makabaki story, I know it's paralleling Deucalion and Pyrrha and that may be all it's doing. But the potential Honor/Cultivation parallels just kind of jumped out at me this time through.
JesseQ Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) I've heard it theorized that Urithiru may only be accessible through the Cognitive Realm and this may be nothing at all but I noticed this in the prologue of WoR. "She stepped up beside the bead statue, noting for the first time the strange clouds overhead. They seemed to form a narrow ribbon of highway, straight and long, pointing toward the horizon." Maybe it is a sort of highway to Urithiru; it's probably nothing and I guess it could lead to a number of places but I thought I'd mention it. If someone has already mentioned this I apologize for being redundant. Edited January 20, 2014 by JesseQ 1
Witless Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I've heard it theorized that Urithiru may only be accessible through the Cognitive Realm and this may be nothing at all but I noticed this in the prologue of WoR. "She stepped up beside the bead statue, noting for the first time the strange clouds overhead. They seemed to form a narrow ribbon of highway, straight and long, pointing toward the horizon." Maybe it is a sort of highway to Urithiru; it's probably nothing and I guess it could lead to a number of places but I thought I'd mention it. If someone has already mentioned this I apologize for being redundant. Thats a nice catch. Yasnah does seem pretty confident when she tells Shallan that Urithiru isn't in the Shattered Plains.
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