DSC01 he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I suppose I could put this in the Elantris forum, but I tend to forget myself and start blathering about other Cosmere stuff without considering spoiler tags, so I'll just put it here. First of all, I always assumed that the Reod debacle was the direct result of Aona and Skai being killed. It would seem not. They had been dead for a long time before that. The chasm that caused all of the problems with the Dor could even have just been the result of a natural disaster. Regardless of what caused it, the geography-based magic got all messed up when the geography changed because there was no consciousness behind the power to set things right. So why is the magic geographically linked to begin with? When the Dominion theory was shot down, I was at a loss, until a sudden eureka moment: this is some of the weird stuff that happens when a Shard loses its Holder. Without its consciousness, the power blindly tries to compensate, and the balance of its power shifts towards the Cognitive Realm. Normally, while the Shardpool is the manifestation of the Shard's power in the Physical Realm, it is not the only access point because spatial relationships don't mean a lot in the Spiritual Realm. That's why you have Hoid, millions of miles from Nalthis, presumably accessing Endowment's power through his Breath for perfect pitch. The Cognitive Realm, however, is a sort of bridge between the Physical and the Spiritual. With the balance of power shifted so heavily into the Cognitive Realm, the ability to access power from anywhere is weakened. The power sort of congregates around the physical manifestation of the power (the pool). This also explains why it is difficult to travel there. The Cognitive Realm is overloaded with power, and the Spiritual drained of it. One (or both) of these Realms is involved in Transportation, and either condition would likely interfere with travel. 5
Khyrindor he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Some recent WoBs suggest that Dominion and Devotion (as shattered Shards) heavily manifest in the cognitive realm, which is why the magic is very locational. If you have a buildup of power in one area of Sel's Cognitive realm, then the physical realm will represent it with a magic system. I think you are also correct in saying that the spiritual realm is virtually the same everywhere. Which is also why Hoid can use allomancy on Roshar. I assume you could also bring a spren away from Roshar rather easily, IMO. I think I also saw a WoB which said that the buildup of Dominion's and Devotions power was more like plasma than anything else. Which would probably be why its difficult to worldhop through it.
Ari he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I suppose I could put this in the Elantris forum, but I tend to forget myself and start blathering about other Cosmere stuff without considering spoiler tags, so I'll just put it here. First of all, I always assumed that the Reod debacle was the direct result of Aona and Skai being killed. It would seem not. They had been dead for a long time before that. The chasm that caused all of the problems with the Dor could even have just been the result of a natural disaster. Regardless of what caused it, the geography-based magic got all messed up when the geography changed because there was no consciousness behind the power to set things right. So why is the magic geographically linked to begin with? When the Dominion theory was shot down, I was at a loss, until a sudden eureka moment: this is some of the weird stuff that happens when a Shard loses its Holder. Without its consciousness, the power blindly tries to compensate, and the balance of its power shifts towards the Cognitive Realm. Normally, while the Shardpool is the manifestation of the Shard's power in the Physical Realm, it is not the only access point because spatial relationships don't mean a lot in the Spiritual Realm. That's why you have Hoid, millions of miles from Nalthis, presumably accessing Endowment's power through his Breath for perfect pitch. The Cognitive Realm, however, is a sort of bridge between the Physical and the Spiritual. With the balance of power shifted so heavily into the Cognitive Realm, the ability to access power from anywhere is weakened. The power sort of congregates around the physical manifestation of the power (the pool). This also explains why it is difficult to travel there. The Cognitive Realm is overloaded with power, and the Spiritual drained of it. One (or both) of these Realms is involved in Transportation, and either condition would likely interfere with travel. I'm definitely on-board with "The Dor is in the cognitive Realm." As for Aons being based off the landmass, it's probably more basic to realmatics than that. Aonic people can be taken by the Shaod, and their written system of ideographs is based off the nearby landmass. Their belief in the significance of that alphabet leads to AonDor becoming an ideographical magical alphabet, and reinforces the Aons as having magical significance, further ingraining them as a writing system and their link with the landmass. The local Cognitive Realm is likely heavily influenced by the conception people have of the country. 1
DSC01 he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Author Posted October 19, 2015 Belief has very little to do with how Selish magic works, though, per the new Ars Arcanum. Granted, that was in reference to execution, but I would think that it should apply across the board.
Ari he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Belief has very little to do with how Selish magic works, though, per the new Ars Arcanum. Granted, that was in reference to execution, but I would think that it should apply across the board. Could be right. Just trying to figure out why the landmass shapes given we know Dominion is not involved in AonDor, and doesn't represent national borders. (Dominion being involved in a magic system named after Aona always bothered me as a theory anyway...) That said, we know it's likely something that's going on across all of Sel, given Seals in forgery seem to be related to MaiPon. It's entirely possible that Dakhorian runes involve the shape of Fjordell, which would just leave figuring out what's going on with ClayShen or however you spell that weird Jindoese martial art.
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 ... which would just leave figuring out what's going on with ClayShen or however you spell that weird Jindoese martial art. ChayShan uses circular movement patterns to draw on the Dor, which might refer to the shape of the entire planet, if so that would also explain why Shuden was able to use it so far away from Jindo.
DSC01 he/him Posted October 22, 2015 Author Posted October 22, 2015 I've been thinking that there's something odd about the way geography limits ( Kurt doesn't limit) the magic systems on Sel. The Dakhor monks' powers seem to work pretty well when they're far from home. Maybe Dominion-based powers work differently than Devotion-based ones? I'm pretty sure I remember something about ChayShan drawing on the Dor, but that may have just been what the characters believed. I don't know of any relevant WoB, but I'm sure there's something out there.
natc Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 We don't know which if any of the powers are even "based" on either shard. The notion kind of defies the way Realmatics seems to have played out on Scadrial and in Greater Roshar, a little anyway. I do believe it is said somewhere that they can all basically be described as expressions of the same system?
Elbereth she/her Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Q. With regards to the Dor, whereabouts is it located exactly in regards to the Realms? A. Oh you're the first person to ask this one. It is in the Cognitive Realm. I think you might be the first one to crack that one. So, that's something that I've been dancing around for a while, waiting 'til people started to figure that one out. That's not where most of them are. Argent: Can somebody travel to the Spiritual Realm, the same as the Cognitive? A: Yes, but it's a very different experience. It is possible… You may have seen people do it... Q: As in you're not sure, or you're being obnoxiously vague? A: No... Q2(other person): As in, you probably have but he's having trouble remembering it. A: No no no... For instance, Elend burning atium and duralumin pulled most of him into the Spiritual Realm. Q: Oh, that's what happens there. A: Yeah. He kind of got yanked into- You also have seen people ascend with the powers and dip into the Spiritual Realm for a little bit. Q: So, Vin? A: Yeah. But they could be on both, or either, or both at the same time. But you have seen Vin stick into the Spiritual Realm. And it happened to Sazed/Harmony... Q2: Oh! So is that where the gods live? Kinda? A: Most of the bulk of the Shard's energy of being is contained in the Spiritual Realm, yes. Except for one notable exception! Q2: The mistwraith? A: No. These two quotes seem to confirm for me what everyone's been saying: Magic on Sel is weird because it's mainly in the Cognitive Realm, rather than the Spiritual. 2
Rockbud he/him Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 Could the exception be the splintered bits of Honors power in the Cognitive realm in the form of Spren? That's going to have me thinking...
Stormgate he/him Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 I think I know what Devotion's Shardpool is: Elantris itself. 1
The Honor Spren she/her Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 I think I know what Devotion's Shardpool is: Elantris itself.Not to shoot you down, but I'm pretty sure that it was confirmed that the pool they throw dead elantrians in is The shardpool. 1
I_am_NOT_fire Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 I think that when during an aon, an elantrian creates a rift between the cognitive and physical realms, and channels Devotion's power. Somehow the shape of the aon affects how the power manifests. Not to shoot you down, but I'm pretty sure that it was confirmed that the pool they throw dead elantrians in is The shardpool.This is very interesting. I agree that it's probably a physical manifestation of Devotion's power, but well of power really rings a bell. Yep, Scadrial. I think that this power is not so different from Ruin's, but not evil, of course. Perhaps now that the Dor is flowing properly, that power might be in the cognitive realm fully. I theorize that the well was a place to catch the overflow from Devotion's power in the cognitive realm.
Voidus Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 I think that when during an aon, an elantrian creates a rift between the cognitive and physical realms, and channels Devotion's power. Somehow the shape of the aon affects how the power manifests. This is very interesting. I agree that it's probably a physical manifestation of Devotion's power, but well of power really rings a bell. Yep, Scadrial. I think that this power is not so different from Ruin's, but not evil, of course. Perhaps now that the Dor is flowing properly, that power might be in the cognitive realm fully. I theorize that the well was a place to catch the overflow from Devotion's power in the cognitive realm. The well on Scadrial held Preservations power and was a Shardpool.
Yata he/him Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Could the exception be the splintered bits of Honors power in the Cognitive realm in the form of Spren? That's going to have me thinking... Seems that the different (from another WoB) is about the number of Spren/Seon/Skaze. On Roshar there is so many Spren that the Power had a "Safe Valve". On Sel instead there isn't enough Seon/Skaze and therefore the massive power became so Caotic and furious. Brandon stated that the Dor is like Plasma-Investiture. The Plasma happen when a gas is heaten and compressed a lot. The Same occour to the Dor to me.
natc Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 I think that when during an aon, an elantrian creates a rift between the cognitive and physical realms, and channels Devotion's power. Somehow the shape of the aon affects how the power manifests. This is very interesting. I agree that it's probably a physical manifestation of Devotion's power, but well of power really rings a bell. Yep, Scadrial. I think that this power is not so different from Ruin's, but not evil, of course. Perhaps now that the Dor is flowing properly, that power might be in the cognitive realm fully. I theorize that the well was a place to catch the overflow from Devotion's power in the cognitive realm. 1) If all shardpools aren't literal pools of liquid investiture what else would the term "shardpool" supposed to make us envision? 2) Ruin's power isn't even evil.
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