Mixing your drinks (i.e. God metals)

[Djarskublar he/him]

So we know a little bit about atium alloys... What about Lerasium/Atium/Other metal alloys... Wow...

SoS spoiler:

and the potential new god metal that Lessie was spiking herself with. My money is still on that Autonomy is on Scadrial

regardless that was a holy sweet mother of Hoid moment.

[Djarskublar he/him]

I realized that my typing that at midnight meant that it made no sense. What I was trying to get at, while figuring out spoiler tags, was what would happen if you alloyed Lerasium and Atium? Potentially also with a third normal metal like iron.

 

Also, how is it even possible to alloy the God metals? They are supposed to be the solid manifestation of the Shard's powers, right? So there should be no way to make molten Atium to alloy with other metals. Atium should only be possible in solid state, and the liquid form you could alloy can't be made. That is what Shardpools are around for, to be the liquid form. Or am I completely wrong on how alloys are made?

 

Just saying, there is likely a lot we are still completely missing about how the Metallic Arts work. I hope this makes more sense than that mess above.

[Argent he/him]

Hard to tell. I don't even think you can create an alloy of lerasium and atium - both metals are the solid physical forms of Investitures from Shards whose powers destroy each other on touch. I suspect you'll get nothing at best, and a boom at worst. 

 

As to how you would alloy God Metals, I'd wager that there is a difference between molten beads lerasium and the Well, for example. So melting a bunch of atium is not the same thing as getting your hands on his Shardpool. It's an interesting thing to clarify at a signing though.

[Emerald101 he/him]

Hard to tell. I don't even think you can create an alloy of lerasium and atium - both metals are the solid physical forms of Investitures from Shards whose powers destroy each other on touch. I suspect you'll get nothing at best, and a boom at worst. 

 

As to how you would alloy God Metals, I'd wager that there is a difference between molten beads lerasium and the Well, for example. So melting a bunch of atium is not the same thing as getting your hands on his Shardpool. It's an interesting thing to clarify at a signing though.

Brandon Implies that it's possible, but I'd expect it to be even without that. If mixing atium and lerasium makes nothing, then how in the world does Harmony work? Isn't that essentially the same thing on a larger scale?

[Weltall]

Not having finished SoS yet, I hope nothing was revealed there that's going to make this post look silly. I was wondering if we have any WoB on whether a Lerasium bead the size of the one seen in Well of Ascension could be divided up and still produce a useful result when burned and if so how much could be shaved off and still be useful (ie, if you're willing to settle for weaker Allomancy, how many Mistborn could you create with one bead). Because Hoid has a bead and we know he has some Allomancy but if he wants Lerasium for any other purpose, I wonder whether he could have split the thing up. On that topic, I wonder about Lerasium alloys and honestly, what the point is. If you can make yourself or someone else a Mistborn, why settle for less?

 

But to get to the topic of actually alloying both god metals and a third, could that be a way to allow a non-Mistborn to burn an Atium alloy? Because I think it was implied that only a Mistborn can burn those. As for alloying Atium in the first place, we know it can be done somehow because Malatium is an alloy of Atium and Gold, even if we have no clue yet how the 'Eleventh Metal' came to exist. And I think there's a WoB to the effect that all of the sixteen normal metals can be alloyed with Atium.

[Argent he/him]

Brandon Implies that it's possible, but I'd expect it to be even without that. If mixing atium and lerasium makes nothing, then how in the world does Harmony work? Isn't that essentially the same thing on a larger scale?

 

Sazed had to work for it:

 

The powers were opposites. As he drew them in, they threatened to annihilate each other. And yet, because he was of one mind on how to use them, he could keep them separate. They could touch without destroying each other, if he willed it. For these two powers had been used to create all things. If they fought, they destroyed. If they were used together, they created.

[FirstSelector]

Better, Brandon said that the atium/lerasium alloy functions the same pre- and post-Harmony.  One might guess that it makes an atium misting, but I personally think it does something more exotic.

[18th Shard he/him]

Personally, I think that the first time you burn a lerasium/atium alloy, you become a seer. Subsequent burns have another effect.

From Mistborn Annotations and then the reddit ama:

 

As a tidbit, that was a side effect of what that bead of metal [lerasium] did. It wasn’t the main purpose of the bead, and if another Allomancer were to burn it, it would do something else.

 

Q: So you have said that making someone Mistborn is not lerasium's primary function, that a Mistborn burning it would have another effect. Is this also true of its alloys?

A: RAFO

[Ari he/him]

My own personal speculation is that burning a God Metal with Allomancy attunes you towards that's Shard's Intent, and gives you limited access to some of their abilities. For Atium, it makes you more violent (ie. prone to Ruining things) allows you to see into the future, presumably because Ruin was pretty good at that. For Lerasium, you'd probably be pacified, or even compelled to protect others, and it would likely gain you some limited ability in whatever Preservation's most powerful ability is.

 

I think flaring hard enough or burning Duralumin with any God Metal is going to give you that same "peak-into-the-Spiritual-Realm" experience that Elend had with Atium.

 

edit: On alloying Lerasium and Atium... that sounds like a spectacularly risky proposition. I suspect the safest way to approach mixing those two powers would be for a character to see if they could find any Harmonium, which Brandon has hinted at. Under Sazed's influence the two powers are intertwining to a degree, and his consciousness is directing them to work together. I imagine his personal influence on the powers has resulted in some of his physical manifestation of powers combining, and that would be a much safer way to approach what you'd want to achieve from alloying Lerasium and Atium.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Ari

[Voidus]

My own personal speculation is that burning a God Metal with Allomancy attunes you towards that's Shard's Intent, and gives you limited access to some of their abilities. For Atium, it makes you more violent (ie. prone to Ruining things) allows you to see into the future, presumably because Ruin was pretty good at that. For Lerasium, you'd probably be pacified, or even compelled to protect others, and it would likely gain you some limited ability in whatever Preservation's most powerful ability is.

 

I think flaring hard enough or burning Duralumin with any God Metal is going to give you that same "peak-into-the-Spiritual-Realm" experience that Elend had with Atium.

 

edit: On alloying Lerasium and Atium... that sounds like a spectacularly risky proposition. I suspect the safest way to approach mixing those two powers would be for a character to see if they could find any Harmonium, which Brandon has hinted at. Under Sazed's influence the two powers are intertwining to a degree, and his consciousness is directing them to work together. I imagine his personal influence on the powers has resulted in some of his physical manifestation of powers combining, and that would be a much safer way to approach what you'd want to achieve from alloying Lerasium and Atium.

Compared to Preservation Ruin showed it was actually pretty terrible at seeing the future, plus Elend Duralumin-burned Atium and didn't seem more noticeably inclined to ruin anything.

On Atium and Lerasium, keep in mind that Atium beads would have been exposed to the mists pretty regularly with no catastrophic effects so it's not like it immediately explodes or anything.

[Ari he/him]

Compared to Preservation Ruin showed it was actually pretty terrible at seeing the future, plus Elend Duralumin-burned Atium and didn't seem more noticeably inclined to ruin anything.

On Atium and Lerasium, keep in mind that Atium beads would have been exposed to the mists pretty regularly with no catastrophic effects so it's not like it immediately explodes or anything.

 

Right, we have WoB that Duralumin-Atium isn't like normal Atium, and is in fact giving you a peak into the Spiritual Realm. I would imagine that similar bursts of other God Metals burned by Allomancers would have the same effect regardless of which Shard(s) they belonged to.

 

The mists are the gaseous form of Preservation, like the Deepness was the gaseous form of Ruin. Those two mists being mixed deliberately by cosmere-aware people would be more akin to what is being proposed by alloying Atium and Lerasium. And I'm not even sure actually mixing them is the dangerous part- it would be trying to do anything with that investiture afterwards, whether Allomantically or Feruchemically, that would worry me. And we have WoB that it's potentially incredibly dangerous. (Unfortunately it's not on Theoryland so I can't quote it, but iirc he basically says it would most likely either do something totally expected if burned, or explode the universe, lol)

 

That said, if Harmony is the one mixing the powers, that's different. He actually knows each of the Intents intimately, including their history, and would know how to alloy them together safely.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Ari

[Jozomby he/him]

The mists are the gaseous form of Preservation, like the Deepness was the gaseous form of Ruin. Those two mists being mixed deliberately by cosmere-aware people would be more akin to what is being proposed by alloying Atium and Lerasium. And I'm not even sure actually mixing them is the dangerous part- it would be trying to do anything with that investiture afterwards, whether Allomantically or Feruchemically, that would worry me. And we have WoB that it's potentially incredibly dangerous. (Unfortunately it's not on Theoryland so I can't quote it, but iirc he basically says it would most likely either do something totally expected if burned, or explode the universe, lol)

 

That's news to me; not to totally derail conversation or anything, but I was under the impression that the Deepness was the mist, which was the gaseous form of Preservation, and Ruin encouraged the mists/added to them.  I haven't heard that the Deepness was specifically of Ruin.  Is there a WoB or a thread somewhere that you can point me to that explains this?

[Ari he/him]

That's news to me; not to totally derail conversation or anything, but I was under the impression that the Deepness was the mist, which was the gaseous form of Preservation, and Ruin encouraged the mists/added to them.  I haven't heard that the Deepness was specifically of Ruin.  Is there a WoB or a thread somewhere that you can point me to that explains this?

 

There are two mists, a light one of Preservation, and a dark one of Ruin- that said, in checking WoBs, there's nothing definitive about the Deepness in the time of Alendi, (which is what I was referring to, as the things they've attributed to it in legends seem more like what Ruin would do with his mists) but he does refer to the Era 1 mists as the Deepness as well, and their attempt to Snap Allomancers, so it's a little confusing to keep track of which Deepness is being referred to.

[Jozomby he/him]

There are two mists, a light one of Preservation, and a dark one of Ruin- that said, in checking WoBs, there's nothing definitive about the Deepness in the time of Alendi, (which is what I was referring to, as the things they've attributed to it in legends seem more like what Ruin would do with his mists) but he does refer to the Era 1 mists as the Deepness as well, and their attempt to Snap Allomancers, so it's a little confusing to keep track of which Deepness is being referred to.

 

The only time I remember seeing the dark mist was in Well of Ascension when they go through the chamber outside the Well; are there any other times I'm forgetting about?

[Voidus]

There are two mists, a light one of Preservation, and a dark one of Ruin- that said, in checking WoBs, there's nothing definitive about the Deepness in the time of Alendi, (which is what I was referring to, as the things they've attributed to it in legends seem more like what Ruin would do with his mists) but he does refer to the Era 1 mists as the Deepness as well, and their attempt to Snap Allomancers, so it's a little confusing to keep track of which Deepness is being referred to.

There are two in AoL times, before that I'm pretty sure it's just Preservation.

 

 

 

CHAOS (15 OCTOBER 2008)

Do all three Metallic Arts still exist after the events of the book? Are Allomancy and Hemalurgy slightly degenerated now that Ruin and Preservation are dead, or does Allomancy still draw upon Preservation's power (just held with Sazed now)?

BRANDON SANDERSON (15 OCTOBER 2008)

Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy all work as they once did. However, now they are more directly affected by the presence or absence of the mists, which will slowly return to the world but not be of the extent they once were. (The mists are now an extent of Sazed's power, and where they roam, he is better able to influence things. There will also be two kinds of mists.) Note that in the future, Feruchemy powers will start to fracture and split, creating Feruchemical "Mistings."

Yes, this means that in the future series, it will be possible for a person to have one Allomantic power and one Feruchemical power. It will create for some very interesting mixing of powers.

[Ari he/him]

Cheers Voidus, I was looking for that quote about mists. And yeah, I think you're right that they were always Preservation's mists previously, as Brandon was pretty clear in some other WoBs that Atium was the only physical manifestation of Ruin's power prior to Sazed's ascension. (Namely, that the pits were the equivalent of his Shardpool)