I don't like the "poison reducing" effects aluminum (and probably chromium) have...

[SwiftSteel he/him]

I'm assuming that Brandon added the poison reducing effects of aluminum so that the metal wouldn't be as "boring".  But if you're operating under the rule that the alloy of each metal is basically the exact same thing, except effective on an outside target, wouldn't that mean that burning duralumin would strengthen any poisons in the body?

[Swimmingly he/him]

Where did he say that? I remember interpreting the quote of "cleansing the body of impurities" as referring to hostile Investitures (such as Lashings)

[name_here]

I think the poison reducing effects are because some of the allomantic metals (especially pewter, an alloy containing lead, but also others) are toxic. Since the primary effect of aluminum is getting rid of allomantic metals, it can prevent poisoning.

[cem he/him]

It was something about aluminum savants being able to remove other Investitures. I think? Anyway, I'm pretty sure he said nothing about poisons, that's Allomantic pewter or Feruchemical gold.

[Shardlet he/him]

Here is the quote of interest:

 

Source:

 

DOUGLAS

What benefit does an aluminum savant get? Yes, I know this would normally never happen because aluminum burns itself up. Suppose a mad scientist with a willing Mistborn test subject shoved a feeding tube down the Mistborn's throat to pump in a continuous stream of aluminum, replenishing it steadily so there's always a new unburned supply. Add another tube to pump out excess water if necessary. What would he discover? Alternatively, what would Sazed with his Shard-granted knowledge know?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Ha, that IS a little silly of a method. However, on the extreme end of aluminum, I have in the notes the possibility of cleansing the spirit of unwanted effects of other investitures. You'd get really good at this, and maybe even be able to cleanse the body of other impurities.

 

I think the quote is suggestive of more than just removing pewter and cleansing unwanted investitures.  It must be remembered that Brandon is responding to a question about aluminum savants.  So, we are talking about an effect that is normally inaccessible to your average mistborn or gnat (thus effectively indicating that Brandon was not referring to removing pewter).  I don't have any particular problem with the ability being there in potentia even the duralumin effect you are positing.  The rub is, I would expect that such a duralumin effect (if it is actually there) would only occur in duralumin savants. I think it is more likely though that a duralumin savant (if such a thing is even possible) would have some other effect.  Remember that an allomantic metal's corresponding alloy doesn't necessarily have an opposite effect.  Pewter and tin are not opposites, but rather are complements.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Shardlet

[Oudeis he/him]

Most of what Shardlet said, with one addendum...

 

 But if you're operating under the rule that the alloy of each metal is basically the exact same thing, except effective on an outside target, wouldn't that mean that burning duralumin would strengthen any poisons in the body?

 

"exactly the same thing, except effective on an outside target" isn't a difference between a base and an alloy, it's a difference between two bases in a set (e.g. duralumin works in the burning allomancer, nicrosil works outside the burning allomancer). And it only works for the "enhancements", as tin enhances the burner's senses, but iron does not enhance the senses of those you touch.

 

What you presumably meant was the push-pull phenomenon; iron pulls metal towards you while steel flings it away. Brass damps down emotions, zinc enflames them. But that is far from universal. Gold and electrum are hardly clear-cut, and Shardlet pointed out about Tin and Pewter. It certainly seems to be a guideline, but not a hard-and-fast rule.

 

Finally, Mr. Sanderson said that on the extremes this would be possible, he didn't say "this happens every time someone burns aluminum". Presumably, then, if one were so inclined, they could practice with duralumin and learn how to enchance all of the poisons in their body. I'm not sure why one would want to, but iron technically gives you the ability to pull a knife directly at your own chest at mind-boggling speeds, and that hardly seems like the smartest of ideas, itself. So, as ever, allomancy can be a powerful tool, but dangerous to the user if  used thoughtlessly.

[TheOneKEA]

How about a different effect: duralumin savants can enhance the effects of a Investiture applied to them in any of the three Realms.

For example, what would happen if a duralumin savant flared their metal at the same time that their emotions were being Rioted or Soothed? What would happen if they flared while they were inside a time bubble?

[Oudeis he/him]

...Has anyone discussed the confusing case of Bendalloy-Bursting? Whether a mistborn burning both bendalloy and duralumin, or a Slider being touched by a Nicroburst, what actually happens? Let's say Wayne has enough Bendalloy for two minutes of burning, meaning fifteen seconds would pass outside. What happens if he's standing next to a Nicroburst who uses his powers on Wayne? Would the time dilation... burst OUTSIDE? As in, "five seconds" would pass outside, instead of fifteen, giving Wayne six minutes of time in his bubble? Or would it burst for Wayne, spending his two minutes in five seconds? If so what would that mean for time outside? Would so little time pass it would functionally stand still, but only for five seconds?

[Voidus]

I suspect the second, the former would be getting more power out of the metal, and also is the opposite of how Duralumin usually affects a metal burn, if Wayne flares his Bendalloy it's not going to last for a longer time is it? I don't have alloy with me now but I'm pretty sure he does flare it at one point and everything outside slows down more so that's definitely evidence for the second.

[Oudeis he/him]

I suspect the second, the former would be getting more power out of the metal, and also is the opposite of how Duralumin usually affects a metal burn, if Wayne flares his Bendalloy it's not going to last for a longer time is it? I don't have alloy with me now but I'm pretty sure he does flare it at one point and everything outside slows down more so that's definitely evidence for the second.

 

But that's the problem... Duralumin's effect is to change the rate at which you burn the metal. Rate is a function of time. Bendalloy changes how 'time' works. Basically, I'm saying that I don't think it's so clear-cut that anyone can say for sure it is one way or the other until we have WoB. Nothing that affects time ever is simple.

 

I'm currently epic re-reading the Mistborn trilogy, planned to be followed by Alloy, so I'll let you know about Wayne flaring, but I don't recall it off-hand.

[Shardlet he/him]

Increased time compression with a shortened bubble time is functionally equivalent to having your bubble up for longer under normal time compression. 

 

Since duralumin provides an instantaneous burst (i.e., the enhanced store is burned in an instant), it would not be beneficial to the bendalloy burn in its typical use.  Essentially, they would have only an instant to act before the bubble dropped.  Not much time to do anything.  However, I suspect it would produce a strange effect that may have another practical application.  What that effect might be, I have no idea.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Shardlet

[Oudeis he/him]

That's the thing... burst bendalloy burns instantly. But is the instant inside, or is the instant outside?

[Voidus]

But that's the problem... Duralumin's effect is to change the rate at which you burn the metal. Rate is a function of time. Bendalloy changes how 'time' works. Basically, I'm saying that I don't think it's so clear-cut that anyone can say for sure it is one way or the other until we have WoB. Nothing that affects time ever is simple.

 

I'm currently epic re-reading the Mistborn trilogy, planned to be followed by Alloy, so I'll let you know about Wayne flaring, but I don't recall it off-hand.

Both the metal and the allomancer would be inside the time bubble.

[Shardlet he/him]

Right, it would instaneous from the perspective of the burner.

[Oudeis he/him]

You all seem so entirely certain and I'm just never that certain when it comes to time manipulation. There's a ton of physics being broken here, so I don't know that it's safe to say "the metal and allomancer are both inside the bubble so that can only mean one thing." Even so, what do you think that it means? Five seconds would pass for the Allomancer while a femtosecond passed outside?

[Voidus]

There's a ton of physics being broken here, so I don't know that it's safe to say "the metal and allomancer are both inside the bubble so that can only mean one thing."

 

Given everything we know about allomancy I think that's a fairly safe assumption to make, there's no logical reason whatsoever that the metal burn rate would be dependent upon the time elapsing outside of the bubble.

Even so, what do you think that it means? Five seconds would pass for the Allomancer while a femtosecond passed outside?

 

Something like that, I doubt it would be particularly useful, be more suited for Cadmium than Bendalloy.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Most of what Shardlet said, with one addendum...

 

 

"exactly the same thing, except effective on an outside target" isn't a difference between a base and an alloy, it's a difference between two bases in a set (e.g. duralumin works in the burning allomancer, nicrosil works outside the burning allomancer). And it only works for the "enhancements", as tin enhances the burner's senses, but iron does not enhance the senses of those you touch.

 

What you presumably meant was the push-pull phenomenon; iron pulls metal towards you while steel flings it away. Brass damps down emotions, zinc enflames them. But that is far from universal. Gold and electrum are hardly clear-cut, and Shardlet pointed out about Tin and Pewter. It certainly seems to be a guideline, but not a hard-and-fast rule.

 

Finally, Mr. Sanderson said that on the extremes this would be possible, he didn't say "this happens every time someone burns aluminum". Presumably, then, if one were so inclined, they could practice with duralumin and learn how to enchance all of the poisons in their body. I'm not sure why one would want to, but iron technically gives you the ability to pull a knife directly at your own chest at mind-boggling speeds, and that hardly seems like the smartest of ideas, itself. So, as ever, allomancy can be a powerful tool, but dangerous to the user if  used thoughtlessly.

You could also burst drugs, vitamins, possibly even Feruchemical abilities if you're a Twinborn - though, come to think of it, I think feruchemy can already do this by default.

[Shardlet he/him]

You all seem so entirely certain and I'm just never that certain when it comes to time manipulation. There's a ton of physics being broken here, so I don't know that it's safe to say "the metal and allomancer are both inside the bubble so that can only mean one thing." Even so, what do you think that it means? Five seconds would pass for the Allomancer while a femtosecond passed outside?

 

I have no idea what the effect might be.  But I think it fairly certain that the bendalloy would be consumed instantaneously from the perspective of the burner.  I personally think that this would not give the burner an opportunity to take any action.  I expect that there will be some pretty special effect.  Consider the case of Elends duralumin enhanced atium.  Did he see the movements of his opponent for the next five minutes?  Did it overcome his opponents own atium burn?  No, the effect was unexpected and rather profound.  I would anticipate something similar being the case for duralumin enhanced bendalloy.  It might actually bump the burner forward (or back) in time?  Who knows?  I just think that it would be unlikely to give the burner time to take an action or a series of actions.