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Origins of Terrismen


anarchitect

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Can someone confirm that the Terrismen are originally from Scadrial?

 

I mean they have very distinct features from the other nation of the planet (they are tall, with long faces, etc).

 

Also, I don't think that when Ruin and Preservation started creating life on Scadrial, that they also planed to make people with distinctive racial traits just to create future cultural diversity.

 

I can imagine something totally different happening in the Southern Continent because... it's another continent, but The Final Empire and the Terris Dominance where right next to each other which makes me wonder how they could have evolved so differently. 

 

Adjusting Tinfoil Hat:

 

So I'm thinking along the line that Terrismen, having ancestry in the Worldbringers sect, whom in turn seem to be connected with the Worldsingers from Roshar (there is a WoB for this), might suggest that Terrispeople are originally from somewhere else, and established on Scadrial with some personal agenda.

 

...which, after thousands of years in Scadrial history, kinda makes them Ancient Aliens.

 

Terrismen.png

 

..............................

EDIT. There's also this WoB which tells us that they are isolated... maybe running from something:

 

"CHAOS

Since the dawn of Scadrial, why was Feruchemy isolated in a single distinct population in the world, namely the Terrismen? Allomancy, while rare within the population of Scadrial, at least was not isolated to one population, it was spread evenly, it seems. What is special about the Terrismen that only they get the power of Feruchemy? Does it have something to do with the previous Ascensions before Rashek, with the guardian keeping the power for a time?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It's all in the spiritual DNA, which is passed on like normal DNA. However, they are a separate people. They've kept themselves isolated, similar to the jews in our world. When I asked he said there have been some Feruchemical-mistings in the past, but they are very rare."

 

Edited by anarchitect
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There seems to be an awful lot of peoples migrating to different worlds in the legends of different Cosmere peoples. The Rosharans and their Traquiline Halls are one group that is a distinct possibility. Not to mention the residents of Threnody specifically say they left their world as refugees or pilgrims of some sort. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Terris people are another group. In fact most if not all worlds should have something like that in their mythologies if you consider that most shards didn't create their own humans like Preservation and  Ruin did, but brought them from Yolen. 

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Not to mention the residents of Threnody specifically say they left their world as refugees or pilgrims of some sort. 

 

I'm pretty sure they just crossed the sea. Isn't it expressly said that Homeland and Hell are just two different continents?

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I'm pretty sure they just crossed the sea. Isn't it expressly said that Homeland and Hell are just two different continents?

They never used the word "continents" but the context of their dialogues/thoughts seem to point to a intercontinets travel from the Homeland to the Hell

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The Terris knew the names of the shards so that shows that they at least know a little about the cosmere. So maybe they are originally from Yolen or something.

 

I don't think the knowledge of a shard's name is particularly indicative of cosmere-awareness. Vin, for example, gains knowledge of ruin's name despite having liittle knowledge of the cosmere. I think it's perfectly possible for the shards interactions with the people pre-ascension to have revealed their names. 

 

That said, I think this is a perfectly valid theory. The biggest point I have against it is that we don't know of any mention of a 'journey' in the Terris religion.

Edited by Emerald101
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I don't think the knowledge of a shard's name is particularly indicative of cosmere-awareness. Vin, for example, gains knowledge of ruin's name despite having liittle knowledge of the cosmere. I think it's perfectly possible for the shards interactions with the people pre-ascension to have revealed their names. 

 

That said, I think this is a perfectly valid theory. The biggest point I have against it is that we don't know of any mention of a 'journey' in the Terris religion.

 

She found through Kwaan's incribed metal plate IIRC. Kwaan was part of of the Worldbringers I believe, but we aren't exactly sure of HOW Cosmere aware they are. Also, bear in mind Rashek/TLR had to make changes to the population after moving the planet to account for the altered conditions (predominantly seen in the skaa) so pre-FE, Terrisfolk probably weren't that much different from the rest of the world.

 

We also don't know if when RuPres created humans, if they also created Scadrial as well so if the Terris folk made a journey of some sort remains to be seen.

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She found through Kwaan's incribed metal plate IIRC. Kwaan was part of of the Worldbringers I believe, but we aren't exactly sure of HOW Cosmere aware they are. Also, bear in mind Rashek/TLR had to make changes to the population after moving the planet to account for the altered conditions (predominantly seen in the skaa) so pre-FE, Terrisfolk probably weren't that much different from the rest of the world.

 

I'd forgotten that she learned that through Kwaan's plate. Thanks for setting me straight. However, I still think it'd be possible for people to have learned the shard's names through shardic interaction. A different example would be through Dalinar's visions, where he learns Odium's name and hears Cultivation referenced. 

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Wasn't there WoB that he initially planned Feruchemy for a different story, but it fit well in Mistborn? That could suggest he added it to Mistborn as an import.

 

Sort of.  Allomancy was originally used in Mistborn prime (but there were no Mistings or emotional Allomancy yet) and Feruchemy was featured in Final Empire prime.  Neither book worked particularly well so Brandon tried mashing them together and got Mistborn: The Final Empire, which turned out well.

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Sort of.  Allomancy was originally used in Mistborn prime (but there were no Mistings or emotional Allomancy yet) and Feruchemy was featured in Final Empire prime.  Neither book worked particularly well so Brandon tried mashing them together and got Mistborn: The Final Empire, which turned out well.

 

Ah, right, I have avoided the Prime books because it's very confusing to read different versions of the same characters, and they're a little too WIP for me. That makes sense and means most likely Feruchemy is firmly Scadrian.

Edited by Ari
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In one of the original trilogy mistborn books (WoA or HoA, i think) Hoid appears as the leader of the Terris people. Could this just be that Hoid is super awesome and is able to infiltrate an entire race at their head or could it be that he is familiar with Terrismen? If they were from a different Shardworld naturally, then perhaps Hoid has run across their kinda before...

 

Also, interesting point is somewhere near the end of HoA (when Sazed is speaking with the 1st Gen Kandra) they say something about "by the time something had taken place, the Gods of the world had already withdrawn themselves from their creations" So this could either mean that the Terrismen knew Ruin and Pres because they created them and made themselves known to their creations, OR they came to Scadrial from elsewhere and learned of the shardholders subsequently 

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In one of the original trilogy mistborn books (WoA or HoA, i think) Hoid appears as the leader of the Terris people. Could this just be that Hoid is super awesome and is able to infiltrate an entire race at their head or could it be that he is familiar with Terrismen? If they were from a different Shardworld naturally, then perhaps Hoid has run across their kinda before...

 

Also, interesting point is somewhere near the end of HoA (when Sazed is speaking with the 1st Gen Kandra) they say something about "by the time something had taken place, the Gods of the world had already withdrawn themselves from their creations" So this could either mean that the Terrismen knew Ruin and Pres because they created them and made themselves known to their creations, OR they came to Scadrial from elsewhere and learned of the shardholders subsequently 

 

Brandon has hinted that there's a reason Worldbringers and Worldsingers have similar names in a recent WoB, and we know that Hoid was a Worldsinger, so it's entirely possible that he's had similar involvement with the Terris people before the Lord Ruler took over.

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Ok, I just fetched this from another post. Might be relevant, might just be a stretch.

 

"Ruin was good at influencing minds but couldn't read them, where Preservation could read but not influence."

 

Also this WoB:

 

Q: Since it seems you're still answering questions here (Wow! That's some serious dedication!), I thought I'd ask one myself. Are things that are written by scholars on Roshar suspect? In Mistborn, Ruin could change anything that was written down, so can Odium do the same? Are written words on Roshar: untrustworthy, trustworthy because that ability was somehow limited to Ruin, or trustworthy because Odium COULD do it but just won't because it's not his style/he doesn't consider it?

 

A: Odium didn't have a hand in creating Roshar, and his essence doesn't permeate it in the same way as Ruin permeated Scadrial. This gave Ruin a great deal more power over things like this--except when he ran into metals, of course.

Another difference is that Odium has a fully-living, fully-aware, and very powerful Shard opposing him. (Contrasted to one that was half-dead and going mad.)

So yes, you can trust much of what was written. Odium can be subtle when he needs to be, but his primary avenue of attack has been along a different line than the one Ruin used.

 

Now:

 

1) Do we have any evidence of Ruin influencing a Terrisman? I think we only got Sazed, Tindwyl, and Rashek for clear sources if they were or were not. From what I recall that doesn't happen in the series. Might just be a coincidence that it was not applied in the books for them to be influenced.

2) From the WoB we can expand on the fact that Ruin and preservation had influence in what they created. Might be that they lacked influence on Terrisman because it was not their creation.

 

Possible conclusion from 1)+2) = (with SPOILERS from the free chapters of Shadow of Self): Wax meets with his grandmother. She is a full Terrisman and apparently living in a Terrisman community. The community does not like to mix with the rest of the world to much. This could be because they do not want their blood to be mixed with that of the ones created by Ruin and Preservation so they won't be influenced by Harmony. Or it might be that they are still as traditional as they were 300 years ago. Excerpt from the chapter:

"
There should not have been a thatched log hut in the middle of Elendel, and yet here it was. Wax stooped to enter, seeming to step backward in time hundreds of years. The air inside smelled of old leather and furs.

The enormous firepit in the middle would never be needed in Elendel’s mild weather. Today, a smaller fire had been constructed at its very center, and over it simmered a small kettle of hot water for tea. However, charred stones indicated that the entire firepit was sometimes used. It, the furs, the ancient-style paintings on the wall—of winds, and frozen rain, and tiny figures painted with simple strokes on slopes—were all fragments of a myth.

Old Terris. A legendary land of snow and ice, with white-furred beasts and spirits that haunted frozen storms. During the early days following the Catacendre, refugees from Terris had written down memories of their homeland, as no Keepers had remained."

 

Also, they still fear what mixing does:

 

“Allomancy is not so evil as you make it out to be, Grandmother.”

“Neither power is evil,” she said. “It is mixing those powers that is dangerous."

 

Their fear seems unjustified.... UNLESS, as they are still so traditional, it's based on an ancient fear. They didn't mixed AT ALL 300 years ago when the real danger (Ruin) was there and now they might be doing it out of tradition towards meaningless results. Also, 300 years ago The Lord Ruler had Terris men castrated and the women put into his own breeding program, maybe to avoid the danger of mixing as well. During the first series Ruin has the entire Synod murdered, because maybe they were out of his influence.

 

If all these wire cross we might be close to proving some alien origin... just maybe

 

I could probably make more absurd connections but I have sleep fatigue and that's why this post is so long and unorganized. (sorry for that)

 

Lastly, i think there might be something important in Shadow of Self, if we find out what religion the Terris people believe in now. It might connect more dots :)

 

 

Edited by anarchitect
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Also, was Sazed ever soothed or rioted in the series?

I don't remember the exact method she uses. But Vin proves that anyone in the Crew (therefore also Sazed) wasn't a Kandra throught the Emotional Allomancy.

 

And if this example is wrong. I find strange that Breeze who touch everyone emotion don't catch something strange with Sazed.

 

But both of this "proves" are worthless because the Ruin&Preservation method and the Allomancy work different.

You can sooth/riot a non Scadrial (a Rosharan for example) without problem.

 

PS: I skipped the post with spoiler because i don't want to read nothing before the book releases. (many months for me :( )

Edited by Yata
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1. Please don't double-post; if you have something to add and no one else has replied, you can edit your post to include the new sentence.

 

2. While it's nice of you to warn of spoilers, please put them behind a spoiler cut.

 

3. When Tindwyl meets Sazed in the refugee camp and they go off to study, we switch to Breeze's point of view, and he had been Soothing them both.

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Ok, I just fetched this from another post. Might be relevant, might just be a stretch.

 

"Ruin was good at influencing minds but couldn't read them, where Preservation could read but not influence."

 

Also this WoB:

 

Q: Since it seems you're still answering questions here (Wow! That's some serious dedication!), I thought I'd ask one myself. Are things that are written by scholars on Roshar suspect? In Mistborn, Ruin could change anything that was written down, so can Odium do the same? Are written words on Roshar: untrustworthy, trustworthy because that ability was somehow limited to Ruin, or trustworthy because Odium COULD do it but just won't because it's not his style/he doesn't consider it?

 

A: Odium didn't have a hand in creating Roshar, and his essence doesn't permeate it in the same way as Ruin permeated Scadrial. This gave Ruin a great deal more power over things like this--except when he ran into metals, of course.

Another difference is that Odium has a fully-living, fully-aware, and very powerful Shard opposing him. (Contrasted to one that was half-dead and going mad.)

So yes, you can trust much of what was written. Odium can be subtle when he needs to be, but his primary avenue of attack has been along a different line than the one Ruin used.

 

Now:

 

1) Do we have any evidence of Ruin influencing a Terrisman? I think we only got Sazed, Tindwyl, and Rashek for clear sources if they were or were not. From what I recall that doesn't happen in the series. Might just be a coincidence that it was not applied in the books for them to be influenced.

2) From the WoB we can expand on the fact that Ruin and preservation had influence in what they created. Might be that they lacked influence on Terrisman because it was not their creation.

 

Possible conclusion from 1)+2) = (with SPOILERS from the free chapters of Shadow of Self): Wax meets with his grandmother. She is a full Terrisman and apparently living in a Terrisman community. The community does not like to mix with the rest of the world to much. This could be because they do not want their blood to be mixed with that of the ones created by Ruin and Preservation so they won't be influenced by Harmony. Or it might be that they are still as traditional as they were 300 years ago. Excerpt from the chapter:

"There should not have been a thatched log hut in the middle of Elendel, and yet here it was. Wax stooped to enter, seeming to step backward in time hundreds of years. The air inside smelled of old leather and furs.

The enormous firepit in the middle would never be needed in Elendel’s mild weather. Today, a smaller fire had been constructed at its very center, and over it simmered a small kettle of hot water for tea. However, charred stones indicated that the entire firepit was sometimes used. It, the furs, the ancient-style paintings on the wall—of winds, and frozen rain, and tiny figures painted with simple strokes on slopes—were all fragments of a myth.

Old Terris. A legendary land of snow and ice, with white-furred beasts and spirits that haunted frozen storms. During the early days following the Catacendre, refugees from Terris had written down memories of their homeland, as no Keepers had remained."

 

Also, they still fear what mixing does:

 

“Allomancy is not so evil as you make it out to be, Grandmother.”

“Neither power is evil,” she said. “It is mixing those powers that is dangerous."

 

Their fear seems unjustified.... UNLESS, as they are still so traditional, it's based on an ancient fear. They didn't mixed AT ALL 300 years ago when the real danger (Ruin) was there and now they might be doing it out of tradition towards meaningless results. Also, 300 years ago The Lord Ruler had Terris men castrated and the women put into his own breeding program, maybe to avoid the danger of mixing as well. During the first series Ruin has the entire Synod murdered, because maybe they were out of his influence.

 

If all these wire cross we might be close to proving some alien origin... just maybe

 

I could probably make more absurd connections but I have sleep fatigue and that's why this post is so long and unorganized. (sorry for that)

 

Lastly, i think there might be something important in Shadow of Self, if we find out what religion the Terris people believe in now. It might connect more dots :)

 

 

 

 

I think they are leery of producing compounders because they don't feel that that much power in one person is a good thing. They still remember what TLR was able to do with it and would rather not have a repeat.

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