Cause of the Recreance

[Aether he/him]

Honor has triggered the infodump safety protocol

Funniest line in this thread.

 

I think we know two of the oaths.  "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves" and "I will remember those who have been forgotten."  So, one group could abandon the weak while another group might have run around destroying memorials and the like.  I wonder what the others might have done. 

Wait, whence did we get this second one`?

 

Remember the ardents who were studying spren?  They talked about whether or not people had tried eating in Shadesmar.  I think that at least some of the soulcasters amongst the ardents are doing so through Shadesmar. 

 

If surgebinding and soulcasting are the same, are the ardents hiding surgebinders amongst their ranks?

Geranid and Ashin didn't really give the impression that the ardents are able to visit Shadesmar nowadays. With Spanreeds, it would be fairly simple to just ask some ardents who's been there, yet Ashin was intending to "read" about it. Presumably, the ardents are aware of the existence of the Three Realms (or at the very least the Physical and Cognitive one=, but have lost the knowledge on how to get there.

 

Bear in mind we have not seen any definite examples of someone using a soulcaster in the TWoK.

 

There are three characters we see soulcasting:

 

Jasnah - does not even have a soulcaster.

Shallan - Does not use a soulcaster

Random interlude guy - soulcasts a wall to smoke (seems to have a single use soulcaster)

 

We only have word of mouth from Jasnah & Shallan and Kabsal regarding the action of soulcasting with Fabrials.

 

I suspect that we have to differenciate modern Fabrials (which include single function soulcasters) from ancient artifacts (Plate, Blade, universal soulcasters).

 

We know that Plate and Blade do not operate in the same way as modern fabrials. I feel that the inevitable logic is that 'ancient' soulcasters have more in common with plate/blade than they do with fabrials. 

Wait, what random interlude dude? In tWoK? Or are you referring to a Words of Radiance Interlude? WHERE????

 

 

Also, as has been hinted at, but not stated directly, it is a possibility that there is actually two different kinds of fabrials - one necessitating the capture of a Spren (modern fabrials would fall into this category) and one of unknown origin (Shards and probably Soulcasters would fall into this category). The commonality between these two is that both are heavily invested objects that are able to mimic the abilities of Surgebinding, the difference being the source of this investiture.

 

This could potentially explain why (presumably) only Radiants/Surgebinders had access to fabrials prior to the Recreance, since the modern way of making fabrials by capturing Spren potentially wasn't know back then, and that only people able to access Investiture could use an power the ancient type of fabrials to full extent.

 

 

EDIT: exchanged "from where" with "whence" because the latter is more awesomer.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Aether

[marianmi]

interlude of Mr. T, where some guy soulcasts stone to smoke.

[Shardlet he/him]

Wait, whence did we get this second one`?

 

From the Lift interlude when she uses regrowth.

 

Wait, what random interlude dude? In tWoK? Or are you referring to a Words of Radiance Interlude? WHERE????

 

From the Szeth interlude in WoK where his former bosses head gets rolled accross the floor and he is given the hitlist. 

[Meg]

I don't think you can do magic with just gemstone + stormlight...

Lift doesn't even need gemstones ... Kaladin (as well as Szeth) use the gems as a battery for Stormlight. This seems to be usual (see Darkness getting gems out of Lift's reach).

Jasnah, too, seems to use her "soulcaster" (to be more specific: the gems) also as a battery. I believe that Shallan's "soulcaster" works the same way. By the way: Shallan didn't even touch the gemstone she used when she soulcasted the goblet into blood.

I think one needs Stormlight to use Rosharan magic (as far as we have seen it yet). If one is an "inherent/innate magic user" they only need Stormlight. Others can replicate this use of magic with machines (which, too, need Stormlight to work).

I'm quite sure that we will learn in the future that we mess up a lot about "fabrials", "machines" and "soulcasters".

[Strife]

I also recall several early quotes from Brandon talking about how the world of the SA had, among others, a "fundamental forces" magic system and a "transformation" magic system. Up to now we have assumed that Soulcasting is either fabrial based or surgebinding based. I wouldn't describe either of these as a "transformation based" magic system.

 

I see a few possibilities for what is going on:

 

1) There is an as-of-yet unrevealed magic system that is "transformation" based. I suppose it is possible that either Jasnah or Shallan is actually using this system, and not surgebinding. Maybe the cryptics are involved in this system in some way? They certainly don't act like any other spren we have seen. Maybe this is the unknown system that is eluded to in the Ars Arcanum?

 

Thinking about the transformation magic system, is it possible that it has something to do with the Parshendi's ability to change forms?

Edited November 30, 2013 by Strife

[Aether he/him]

Lift doesn't even need gemstones ... Kaladin (as well as Szeth) use the gems as a battery for Stormlight. This seems to be usual (see Darkness getting gems out of Lift's reach).

Jasnah, too, seems to use her "soulcaster" (to be more specific: the gems) also as a battery. I believe that Shallan's "soulcaster" works the same way. By the way: Shallan didn't even touch the gemstone she used when she soulcasted the goblet into blood.

I think one needs Stormlight to use Rosharan magic (as far as we have seen it yet). If one is an "inherent/innate magic user" they only need Stormlight. Others can replicate this use of magic with machines (which, too, need Stormlight to work).

I'm quite sure that we will learn in the future that we mess up a lot about "fabrials", "machines" and "soulcasters".

Technically, Stormlight is just an easy reachable form of Investiture for the Rosharans. They could presumably use other forms of Investiture if they had them available (which is what Lift does. Even though they say she metabolises food into Stormlight, I think it would be more correct that she metabolises the innate Investiture of her food).