(SPOILERS) Regarding Steelheart's weakness - Please prove me wrong

[Oculus he/him]

Steelheart can only be harmed by someone who does not fear him which is why David's father was able to injure him. At the end of the book Steelheart can only be harmed by himself since he is the only person (we know of) that does not fear him.

 

So, what if Steelheart flew through a window? Would the glass not cut him since he initiated the glass breaking? What if he got mad and kicked one of his steel buildings? Would that not also hurt him since he initiated the kicking?  I suppose the question is this: if Steelheart can hurt himself why did he not to it more often?

 

Let the record show that I really enjoyed the book and am not trying to shoot it down. I would love to see some discussion about this.  Please prove my theory wrong.

[MathEpic he/him]

Good observation.

 

My guess is that for the purposes of Steelheart's weakness deliberately crashing through a window (or through the ceiling of a bank) does not count.

 

One possibility is that when Steelheart intentionally crashes through something, or blasts something a little too close with his energy powers it is an activation of his invincibility, and therefore does not qualify as hurting himself.

 

Both times in the book when Steelheart was hurt (prologue and climax) it was the result of someone trying to cause some sort of harm. (David's father did not intend to hurt Steelheart, but he wanted to kill Deathpoint.) One possibility is that the weakness only activates when someone who doesn't fear Steelheart is making an attack.

 

That being said, I wonder if Steelheart ever had to nurse a stubbed toe in secret.

[Mysty she/her]

That would really be funny if he had to hide pain from stubbed toes to protect his weakness. Alas! we can't ask Steelheart that anymore. Of course anyone asking Steelheart if it hurts to stub your toe would end up very dead--along with their family and friends to be safe.

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

I think it's more along the lines of cognitive thought. If one of the Epics can be weakened/killed by something as random and mundane as the number 37, it's not too big a leap of logic that only someone living with the specific 'non-fearing' mentality can harm him.

Which raises the question. Could wild or rabid animals harm Steelheart? I mean, I don't think they're mentally capable of fear. Or just a crazy person? Like somebody who has mentally snapped and is randomly striking out. They can't discern any enemies or foes. They don't know what safe or danger is. They would have no concept of fear whatsoever. I really feel like there had to have been a few Epics who match that criteria at one point that Steelheart would have had to put down. Why wouldn't they of been able to harm him?

[Shadow Guardian he/him]

Along the lines of what MathEpic said, I think there has to be some intent to hurt/harm, and as Shadow Dancer pointed out, there may have to be the cognitive aspect to it, or at least behind the object or method of harm. Because when you think about it, any object, gun, bullet, glass, bomb, etc. has no inherent intent or fear for that matter (leaving any realmatic theory possibilities out of it, since we're not in the cosmere), but they've all still been bound by the intent (and fear or lack thereof) of the person using the object and intending to cause harm.

 

I think it could be seen as "Steelheart is immune to any and all harm" and the only way to penetrate that invincibility is as someone who has no fear. Depending on interpretation, if he was subject to unintentional harm, even from himself, it might be the case that he could be subject to any act of nature (ie. rockslide or something) hurting him, accidentally hurting himself, and things like crossfire, which were ruled out in the last battle (debatable on the last one, because harm was intended, albeit, not directed at SH). The difference between being immune to all harm (except by someone who has no fear of him) or immune to all 'intended' harm (again, except by someone with no fear), if that makes any sense. 

Nonetheless, I think you do raise a good point, because the only difference (at least that I can see/think of at the moment) is the intent, but even that being said, is the ending the first time he's ever hurt (and consequently killed) himself in the process of attempting to hurt someone else?

[name_here]

The weaknesses can be bizzarely specific, as the 37-year-old weakness shows. It appears likely he is only vunerable to direct effects of attacks made by people who are not afraid of him, since he has collapsed buildings he was inside of on purpose.

 

I think it's pretty likely that he could be killed by people who are completely incapable of feeling fear, but that is rather rare. Still, he's clearly afraid someone can kill him, given how paranoid he is and how he doesn't put down riots in person.

[Gloom he/him]

Which raises the question. Could wild or rabid animals harm Steelheart? I mean, I don't think they're mentally capable of fear. Or just a crazy person? Like somebody who has mentally snapped and is randomly striking out. They can't discern any enemies or foes. They don't know what safe or danger is. They would have no concept of fear whatsoever. I really feel like there had to have been a few Epics who match that criteria at one point that Steelheart would have had to put down. Why wouldn't they of been able to harm him?

 

Wild animals fear humans in most cases, and they react to aggression with a fight or flight response. Both of these responses can be attributed to fear. A rabid animal is no different. In a rabid animal, the fear response triggers an opposite reaction than would ordinarily be anticipated. A rabid animal can appear friendly, it may be curious about humans where it would ordinarily be wary. This doesn't change the basic physiological condition of the animal, it only changes the response that animal makes as a result of those stimuli due to the disease it suffers from.

[Oudeis he/him]

A baby. I think a baby could kill Steelheart.

[Gloom he/him]

LOL, I'm picturing the E-Trader baby trying to convince SH to invest in Knighthawk Foundry stocks. SH gets pissy, and the kid pulls a Dirty Harry 45 and caps him. Then his mother comes over and takes away the babies phone.

[WarHawk he/him]

I wonder if David suggesting that Steelheart was the only person unafraid was a misdirect. During the final confrontation between Steelheart and David, David has a revelation about Steelneart's weakness. "An awareness opened my mind, like the burning radiance of the sun itself. I knew. I understood." It doesn't explicitly say, but from the context, I wonder if David, knowing he is going to die, loses his fear of Steelheart.

 

David goes on to say that he killed Steelheart. David used the blocked gun barrel as the delivery system to kill Steelheart. "I've seen him die in an inferno, and I was the one who killed him. Yes, the hand that pushed the detonator was his own, but I don't care - and have never cared - which hand actually took his life. I made it happen. I've got his skull to prove it."

 

David's father, unafraid of Steelheart, fires the bullet that harms Steelheart. David, unafraid knowing he is going to die, blocks the barrel using the gun as the delivery system to kill Steelheart.

[happyman he/him]

I strongly guess that to harm Steelheart, it has to be (1) a deliberate attack, like when David's father accidentally hit Steelheart, and it has to be (2) triggered by somebody who does not fear Steelheart.

 

Steelheart intended to kill David.  That was his intent.  He wanted somebody to die.  David set it up so that it would kill Steelheart, too, but it was definitely a fatal intent which resulted in the trap being triggered.

 

In short, I think Steelheart was weak to somebody who didn't fear him who was also actively trying to kill (but not necessarily him).

[Andrew C]

I wonder if a sniper attack, carried out by a person unaware that they were firing on Steelheart, would work?

[Gloom he/him]

Well, theoretically it could, but SH pretty much always wore his super undies when he was in public and seems to have made an effort to always look as tough as possible. So the sniper might not know whom they were shooting at if they were from another planet, but they would know it was an epic, and since he would almost certainly be surrounded by other epics acting as lackies, they would have a good reason to suspect he was a high epic. If they were even a little afraid, they would fail.

[Argent he/him]

I wonder if a sniper attack, carried out by a person unaware that they were firing on Steelheart, would work?

 

I vote no. Sounds too similar to the crossfire thing the Reckoners attempted.

[name_here]

Agreed.

 

What I think would work would be calling in a veteran Reckoner-like team from China. They wouldn't be afraid of Steelheart specifically, and feel pretty confident about taking on Epics in general. As long as they feel confident they know his weakness, even if it's a fake one, they'd probably be able to take him out.

[Oudeis he/him]

I still say it's stricter than that. it can't be just "I don't fear you right at this moment," it has to be, "If you were holding a knife to my throat (and if I were an Epic, you were applying my weakness) I would not for one second fear for my life." No fear. Not existential. Not, if this doesn't work I'm toast. By the very act of taking precautions like being a sniper or knowing that you're a special team called in to do what others can't, you're showing that under other circumstances you believe he would, and could, kill you. That's not a lot of fear, but it's enough for Steelheart to be immune to you.

[junior]

I wonder if a sniper attack, carried out by a person unaware that they were firing on Steelheart, would work?

 

I think it would need to be someone who actually had never heard of Steelheart - and possibly didn't even know that they were shooting an Epic (which by itself could cause fear, given the reputation that epics have).

[Oudeis he/him]

You need to find a sniper who hates his own mother, get an illusionist to wrap Steelheart up in the illusion of his mother, and let nature take its course. The sniper has no fear in his soul of his mother, but would still try to kill her.

[Mysty she/her]

You need to find a sniper who hates his own mother, get an illusionist to wrap Steelheart up in the illusion of his mother, and let nature take its course. The sniper has no fear in his soul of his mother, but would still try to kill her.

That might work, provided you could get an illusionist Epic to work with you. and when you are inside an illusion, can you tell? would Steelheart, in all his paranoia, react to the illusion and counter it in some way? Retreat to reasses the sistuation perhapse?

 

Agreed.

 

What I think would work would be calling in a veteran Reckoner-like team from China. They wouldn't be afraid of Steelheart specifically, and feel pretty confident about taking on Epics in general. As long as they feel confident they know his weakness, even if it's a fake one, they'd probably be able to take him out.

I'm not sure that would work. the Reckoners do research and intel gathering on their target's weaknesses before striking, and in that process they would learn about Steelheart and loose the complete fearlessness about Steelheart.

[Oudeis he/him]

 when you are inside an illusion, can you tell?

 

David never could. It's possible that Steelheart has some hitherto unknown Epic power of "I know when I'm in an illusion" or possibly since he's more familiar with illusionists than David is he might just have insight, but the fact remains David was in an illusion at least once and near them a few other times without realizing it.

[name_here]

I still say it's stricter than that. it can't be just "I don't fear you right at this moment," it has to be, "If you were holding a knife to my throat (and if I were an Epic, you were applying my weakness) I would not for one second fear for my life." No fear. Not existential. Not, if this doesn't work I'm toast. By the very act of taking precautions like being a sniper or knowing that you're a special team called in to do what others can't, you're showing that under other circumstances you believe he would, and could, kill you. That's not a lot of fear, but it's enough for Steelheart to be immune to you.

 

I don't think it's quite that strict. Granted, we have precisely two instances of him getting hurt, but his behavior seems to imply that it's looser. He makes a concerted effort to terrify the population, to the point of fabricating atrocities. Also, I don't consider prudent precautions to be indictative of fear; plenty of people work dangerous jobs with many safety measures but don't seem to be afraid of the jobs (often indicated by them bypassing the safety measures because they're inconvient). I think the requirement for hurting him is being absolutely confident he will not hurt you under the circumstances. Deathpoint was confronted by an Epic of unknown powers who seemed entirely unintimidated by his ability, which raised the nagging question "does he have a way of countering my powers?". The SWAT team was doubtless aware that some Epics could shrug off gunfire and slaughter their attackers. The Reckoners spent so long hearing about how powerful and ruthless Steelheart was that they weren't sure he even could be beaten, and were also nervous about confronting an Epic based on their guesswork at his weakness.

 

Getting a team from China to pull off a kill would be a bit of a tricky balancing act, but they'd be confident that they can kill an Epic if they know his weakness and used to killing people others considered invincible, and not have a special fear of Steelheart over and above other Epics. I think it'd work if you could successfully convince them he had a certain weakness without them directly testing it, so they'd feel absolutely sure that their plan would succeed. Or if you could arrange a plan to test it and a secure escape route they're confident will work. Of course, the big obstacle here is that any experienced Reckoner team will worry that the target has a previously-unknown power, and might be smart enough to ask, "So if you know his weakness, why don't you use it?". You might have better luck getting an Epic who has never heard of him before and convincing that Epic their power will bypass his invincibility.

Edited October 17, 2013 by name_here

[Gloom he/him]

It's difficult to imagine that should Pertuity have directed his talent towards killing SH, that he couldn't have seen a way in which to accomplish the task.

[name_here]

I don't know about that. From what I could tell, he can't see very far into the future except for direct danger. It'd probably only help in a situation where he could kill Steelheart in the next few seconds.

[Oudeis he/him]

Fortuity. His name is Fortuity.

 

Maybe he was secretly sexually attracted to Steelheart.

[oGGe]

I wonder if a robot would be able to hurt him? or an animal?

Edited October 22, 2013 by oGGe