Another Shardblade/shardplate idea

[jag519 he/him]

I'm listening to Way of Kings again (which I find to be a really funny book to listen to an audiobook of, b/c while the guys in the story listen to way of kings, I listen to it as well. haha) and I'm at the end and just had a thought, what if all of the shards are not just called shards for no reason, but are actually "Shards" of honor. I don't really know a lot about splinters, I'm assuming emperor's soul has more on that, since that's the only cosmere book I didn't get to yet, but could all of the shardblades and plates just be a splinter of Honor.  Could "Unite them" not only be about uniting the people, but getting all of the "shards" together to recreate the Honor Shard?  Assuming any of the people in this first book live until the end, is it possible that the shardblades/plates get brought together to recreate the Honor Shard and become either honor, or what ever the splinters create 

[Miyabi She/Her]

I wanna say this was answered as a "no," but I can't remember where the quote from Brandon about it is.

EDIT:: Also consider that Shardplate and Blade existed before Honor was Splintered.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Miyabi

[cem he/him]

Brandon always calls the Plates and Blade "Invested objects". That doesn't mean Splinters couldn't be Invested but that doesn't really make much sense to me. Besides aren't spren confirmed to be Splinters and not just of Honor?

[hoser he/him]

Nice idea!

 

If we believe the visions, then the Shardplate and Shardblades coexisted with Honor.  After Honor was splintered, then we got all these random spren everywhere.  So I don't think the energy adds up, but Brandon has said that Shards can be unsplintered.  It seems like a good idea for how to unsplinter a Shard.  So maybe you could use the blades and plate to start a chain reaction to get back the rest of the Shard. 

 

The Shards themselves don't really have a personality and I don't think splinters do either.  So there may be splinters associated with some spren, but I don't think any spren "are" splinters (apologies for pedantry). 

 

Other book spoilers:

The seons contain splinters and the Returned have splinters, but IIRC they are not splinters. 

[Shardlet he/him]

I have also theorized that shardblades are voluntary splinters of Honor and/or Cultivation (http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3713-theory-the-origin-nature-and-purpose-of-shardblades/'>here).  I suspect a splinter is by definition 'invested'.  Spren are also splinters and most of which resultined from Honor's splintering (involuntary). 

 

Just some terminology notes: a shard is one of (or a combination of) the 16 pieces of Adonalsium formed when it was shattered.  A splinter is a portion of a shard.  And the best definition of a sliver we have is one who held a substantial amount of the power of a shard without being a Shard.

[hoser he/him]

My understanding is that splinters are "significant" Shardic investments.  So every flamespren is not a splinter.

@Shardlet

Are you saying that every spren is a splinter?

Is there WOB or some other evidence that every spren is a splinter?

Are you saying that Syl "is" a splinter, rather than being associated with a splinter?

These are the best quotes I could find.

The way I read the examples is that the conscious entities are not the splinter.  By analogy Syl might be associated with a splinter, but she is not a splinter.

  http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=680

Skyler

If a returned gives away his/her breath they die right? So why doesn't Vasher die after he gives his to Denth?

Brandon Sanderson

They will die the moment they run out of breath to harvest. Once a week their body needs a breath in order to survive. Each Returned has one single superpowered breath. Imagine it as one breath that propels them up through the Heightenings, but it is only a single breath. It's what we speak of in Shard world terminology as a Splinter. And when the seventh day comes, if a Returned does not have another breath for his body to consume to keep him alive, his body will actually eat his divine breath and kill him. So they don't die immediately after they get rid of the breath, they're sort of put into a state of limbo where if they don't find more breath by the time that their feast day comes, then they will die. (Vasher did not give his Returned breath to Denth, just a number of normal breaths.)

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=949

Viper

Devotion ... yeah Aona, and you said that was close. My question is: are the Aons at the HEART of the Seons shards of Devotion?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but close.

Viper

But ... I was sure ... the floating Aon at the heart, that's not a shard ...

Brandon Sanderson

(taking pity on me) You're close but a word is wrong. You're using the wrong terminology.

Viper

SPLINTER. Are the Aons at the heart of Seons SPLINTERS of Aona?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=705

Tortellini

My next question was a random idea I had based on the answer about entities living primarily in the cognitive realm given here. I asked (stupidly, you'll see why in a second): "Could it be that spren and seons are basically very similar things?"

Brandon Sanderson

He smiled, thought about how to answer that for a second and then said... "Yes, it could be."

TORTELLINI

I very much got the impression that I was correct though, but I gave him the perfect opening to appreciate the question without answering it at all. Stupid me. I explained that I had the idea that seons exist primarily as cognitive entities with smaller presences in the physical world, while spren are primarily spiritual, also with smaller presences in the physical world. He just smiled for a second, and I said I'd take that as a possible yes and let him get back to signing books for the awesome Waterstone's in Manchester. I'm writing up my thoughts on that in this post.

[Gloom he/him]

Yes he is, but I don't think we have WoB on it directly that I'm aware of. I think a question like this would be RAFOed.

 

Some evidence that supports this would be:

 

NewbSombrero ()

Are Splinters primarily Spiritual?

Brandon Sanderson

Less physical. More a blend of the other two.

 

The other two being spiritual and cognitive of course.

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

"Qualitatively, they're reverses of one another. A Sliver is a human intelligence who has held the power and released it. A Splinter has never been human."

 

In regards to Syl.

Question

How does she forget her memories? Is it in connection to humans that makes it so she remembers things?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Brandon Sanderson

[Nervous grin on Brandon's face] [laughter] There is a certain amount of... It is a symbiotic bond that is gained by Syl. And things gained by the person bonding. And the stronger presence in the physical realm, and the ability to think better in the physical realm is a part of that bond. She is mostly getting [something] of the physical realm. Without the bond, it is very hard for her to think in this world.

 

So Syl loses her ability to remember without a bond holder. So if bonding spren are splinters, they are sort of like live wires who need a human as a ground in order to function cognitively in the physical realm. Bonding spren are mostly of the spiritual or cognitive and can't maintain intelligence in the physical without the aid of a bond (at least for those more spiritually inclined such as Syl). They very well could be slivers made voluntarily by Honor to create the KR.

 

My primary issue with this is that there appears to be at least as many spren that I would associate with Cultivation as their are those I would associate with Honor, and are even some that could be argued to be associated with Odium, such as fear and anger spren. Now they may all be voluntary splinters, but that's a lot of splinters.

 

To be clear, I'm neither in  support of this theory or against it. I'm going to RAFO.

[Looter he/him]

Yes he is, but I don't think we have WoB on it directly that I'm aware of. I think a question like this would be RAFOed.

 

Some evidence that supports this would be:

 

 

The other two being spiritual and cognitive of course.

 

 

In regards to Syl.

 

So Syl loses her ability to remember without a bond holder. So if bonding spren are splinters, they are sort of like live wires who need a human as a ground in order to function cognitively in the physical realm. Bonding spren are mostly of the spiritual or cognitive and can't maintain intelligence in the physical without the aid of a bond (at least for those more spiritually inclined such as Syl). They very well could be slivers made voluntarily by Honor to create the KR.

 

My primary issue with this is that there appears to be at least as many spren that I would associate with Cultivation as their are those I would associate with Honor, and are even some that could be argued to be associated with Odium, such as fear and anger spren. Now they may all be voluntary splinters, but that's a lot of splinters.

 

To be clear, I'm neither in  support of this theory or against it. I'm going to RAFO.

During a reading two days ago Brandon finished his Dalinar scene in it the Spren formed the surge bonds with humans without him, in an apparent imitation of his Herald bonds.

 

So I think that it is that Spren serve a function other than to create the KR bonds.  I just don't know what that function may be.

[Shardlet he/him]

During a reading two days ago Brandon finished his Dalinar scene in it the Spren formed the surge bonds with humans without him, in an apparent imitation of his Herald bonds.

 

What?  .  He read more of the Dalinar purelake scene?  Did anyone get a recording?  If it is a new Dalinar scene, did anyone get a recording?

[Natans he/him]

During a reading two days ago Brandon finished his Dalinar scene in it the Spren formed the surge bonds with humans without him, in an apparent imitation of his Herald bonds.

 

So I think that it is that Spren serve a function other than to create the KR bonds.  I just don't know what that function may be.

 

 

I'm sorry do ask, but could you clarificat a little bit. This new part is unknown in the forum =)

Edited September 27, 2013 by Natans

[Looter he/him]

I'm sorry do ask, but could you clarificat a little bit. This new part is unknown in the forum =)

  It was during his reading in salt lake for Steelheart.  He did two one was from the new Alloy of Law the other was from WoR.  It was effectivly the same as the first time with a little bit more at the end of it I guess not yet seen. 

[Looter he/him]

Ok since I have not found info on this reading I will post what I can remember in a new thread.