Steel Inquisitor's ability to see

[bluepotion he/him]

Hi this is my first post, I was rereading the whole Mistborn series to refresh for the new books coming out and I ran into something that really bugs me.  So here is the quote from HoA

 

 

Marsh held the sheet up, flaring his tin to get a better look at its contents in the darkness.

 

To our knowledge the only way the inquisitors see is with the line created by allomantic iron or steel, but if this was the case then Marsh would't need to use tin to see in the dark.  Marsh should't need to burn tin here because we know for a fact that in WoA when Sazed and Marsh enter the Conventical Mash had no trouble seeing in the dark, to the point where he was basically oblivious to the idea of Sazed not being able to see in the dark.

 

 

So, Sazed thought, inquisitors don't need light to see.

 

These two moments contradict each other.  I've looked all over the forum trying to find someone who had any thought on this but couldn't find any post or comments about this inconsistency.  Was this just a mistake on Brandon's part or can the inquisitors change there vision with tin?

Edited September 6, 2015 by bluepotion

[Elithanathile he/him]

Hi there, and welcome to the forums! My view on this is that while Marsh did not need to see in the dark, I believe it is stated in the final empire that inquisitors see by using steel-lines. He is looking at a sheet of metal, unless I have the situation wrong, with words inscribed in it. That seems to me that it would be very hard to read, no matter how well you could interpret them, so he flared his fun to increase his senses, and be able to get a better grasp of what his steel-lines said. I don't quite get how the steel-sight works, so this theory might be off, but if I have it correct, it certainly clears up the problem.

[natc]

Steelsight is probably no more a visual sense than atium shadows are, since Inquisitors lack eyes, and the central nervous system that puts images together is actually in the eyes and not the brain (recognition/perception is a different matter) yet they can perceive both fine. It's likely that the brain normally expresses the senses as visual cues because sight is a familiar sense that's equipped to be able to handle complex information.

Meaning brightness actually shouldn't make any difference. It's a conundrum.

[Oudeis he/him]

Welcome to the Shard!

 

I've wondered this myself, more than twice. I have come to the conclusion that the second time is a typo. Perhaps there's something to it I'm not getting, however.

 

(Second time chronologically, I mean, so when he's reading Goradel's note. Not your second example).

[Shadowspren he/him]

Does tin give one the ability to see the allomantic lines better? I don't see how that would be the case seeing how it's based off the size/density of the piece of metal in question. 

 

However... Inquisitors see the outline of things by seeing the smallest particles of metal, right? So it might be pretty hard to read as it would require picking out the individual lines pointing to the words.

 

ahh, but doesn't Spook always say "Burning tin is not about what you hear, it's about what you can ignore" Perhaps tin doesn't enhance Marsh's ability to see in the dark, but seeing how there are probably a lot of lines pointing to this piece of metal, tin allows him to ignore the irrelevant lines in order to focus on those that point to the words.

 

It does specifically mention it being dark though... But I don't think light has anything to do with it.

 

Same thing happens in the first book when Kel attacks Keep Venture for Atium, he burns steel and pulls on the safe. That is one that has always bugged me. But it shows that a typo is a possible explanation for your question 

[natc]

Tin doesn't help you ignore anything that we know of. It explicitly bombards you with heightened senses, and is inherently rather useless until you can learn to ignore things by yourself.

The context of that line from Spook is Vin asking him for tips as a tineye, like she has from the others due to their expertise in their single powers. He was almost definitely referring to a matter of skill in using tin, not anything regarding tin itself.

[Moogle]

Burning Allomantic metals enhances your mind. It's a general pattern. Tin explicitly enhances your mind to be able to pick out things - it wasn't just a thing Spook learned, tin literally helps your mind do that.

 

So it might make sense that tin helps you interpret the blue lines you get from burning steel/iron, even if burning tin itself does not enhance the blue lines.

 

Of course it's also possible that viewing the lines is considered a sense. Tin enhances all your senses.

[Oudeis he/him]

Moogle: Marsh specifically says that he burns tin because of the dark. Since we have many in-text references telling us ironlines are unaffected by light (Kelsier in the stairwell, Vin locating a guard to pull on when she was fleeing Shan, etc) nothing you bring up is relevant. If steel works perfectly fine in near total darkness, I don't buy that you need to use tin to read letters in dim light.

[Yata he/him]

Moogle: Marsh specifically says that he burns tin because of the dark. Since we have many in-text references telling us ironlines are unaffected by light (Kelsier in the stairwell, Vin locating a guard to pull on when she was fleeing Shan, etc) nothing you bring up is relevant. If steel works perfectly fine in near total darkness, I don't buy that you need to use tin to read letters in dim light.

Maybe there are some "ambiental difference".

For example, the building with the first TLR-message are build to be use by the Inquisitor. Possibly with some metal pattern easy detecable by the Steel or Iron.

In the "normal world" is quite not so easy to understand the surrounding only by Ironsight.

 

PS: I don't remember, in the place with the TLR-message, March has a POV or it's only Sazed's POV ?

[Oudeis he/him]

You raise an interesting point; Vin, in the Chamber in Kredik Shaw, metal inlays in the walls were made specifically to disguise the thicker metal lines used to open the way to the Well. Vin is flaring steel and tin constantly; it strains credulity to imagine she's never once noticed that tin makes her steelsight better. This is a woman constantly searching for every edge, and preternaturally good at every aspect of allomancy. If simply burning tin improved steelsight, she'd realize it and she'd do it sometimes, like exactly the scene I'm referencing.

[Hoid Is Dead]

I disagree on the first post, based from the quotations, it's from Marsh' pov and Sazed's, therefore you're talking about two different things. Sazed's thoughts are only a hypothesis, is there something else about eyesights based from Marsh?

[Evil_Reptile]

Hi there, and welcome to the forums! My view on this is that while Marsh did not need to see in the dark, I believe it is stated in the final empire that inquisitors see by using steel-lines. He is looking at a sheet of metal, unless I have the situation wrong, with words inscribed in it. That seems to me that it would be very hard to read, no matter how well you could interpret them, so he flared his fun to increase his senses, and be able to get a better grasp of what his steel-lines said. 

This also makes sense because Inquisitors, as Hemalurgic creations, are of Ruin, who cannot read and change metal, which sort of makes their metal-blindness an extension of Ruin's.

[Yata he/him]

This also makes sense because Inquisitors, as Hemalurgic creations, are of Ruin, who cannot read and change metal, which sort of makes their metal-blindness an extension of Ruin's.

You had wrong here.

 

The Metal-blindness of Ruin (and Preservation) doesn't extend to their creation. Is just a Focus-Blindness common (probably) to all the Shards.

We have many examples of Non Metal-Blindness in R&P creations, the main is about the Scadrial's Humans who are creation of P&R and don't have metal-blindness. But if you want to use an Hemalurgic example, the Kandra and the Koloss could see the metal without any problems.

[SweetLift she/her]

Is it possible that the type of metal that is used in the spike has something to do with this? My initial reaction is, oh that does sound like a conflict. However, I am re-reading/listening to Mist Born and am on HoA and just finished the part where Marsh remembers when he was made an inquisitor. They threw a screaming woman on top of him and slammed the spike threw her heart and into his eye and then others after her. In HoA there is much talk about the type of spike used, the timing of the spiking (if a spike sits for days it loses power), the placement of each spike, etc. So I think it highly unlikely this is a conflict. Could it be that Marsh's spikes are a little different than a normal inquisitor's? I recall somewhere that it said Marsh is 'special, but don't recall specifically why. I have not made it back to this particular scene yet, and might go back to see if I can pick up more specific details. Great question!

[Shadowspren he/him]

EVery time we talk about the limitations of Ferrings (for example steelrunners being able to run, but not being able to think any faster) somebody mentions that the powers of Feruchemy are meant to all go together and therefore compliment each other. So is it really that far-fetched that Tin can complment the other powers and extended senses that Allomancy bring?

 

Remember that Marsh would just be seeing the lines pointing to the plate, but to the minerals in the ground. So does TIn help with the depth perception at all? Also, there would not be metal particles EVERYWHERE there are sure to be gaps, no matter how strong the Inquisitor's steelsight is. Could tin just be a way of illuminating those gaps? If so, then that would explain why the darkness even entered the equation.

[natc]

For most environments, yes there are probably gaps.

But there definitely won't be gaps between meta in a message written in a metal plate, that's for sure. So that one is out.

Plus, it defeats the point of steelsight if you can generate blue in places without metal. The primary reason the sense exists is to locate pushing/pulling targets, even if inquisitors use it for something different entirely. You can't have the thing generating false positives for silicon dioxide.

[Oudeis he/him]

EVery time we talk about the limitations of Ferrings (for example steelrunners being able to run, but not being able to think any faster) somebody mentions that the powers of Feruchemy are meant to all go together and therefore compliment each other.

 

...We do? I don't recall doing this.

 

Regardless, even if we, the fans, believe something to be true, if it's contradicted by events in the book, I for one will tend to go with the book. Not only does Vin, who uses tin, iron and steel a lot, never make mention of improved steellines with tin, but the fact remains that Marsh specifically mentions he burns tin because it's dark. Light has no effect on ironlines. Even if tin made the blue lines better, somehow, it would still have nothing to do with light.

 

 

Sazed's thoughts are only a hypothesis

 

No...? We have Sazed direct observations, too. Marsh walks into the Conventical, apparently not noticing that it's dark. When Sazed asks for a light, Marsh goes in, locates a lamp within moments, and returns.

 

I suppose there's an outside chance he uses something like tin savanthood to smell the oil in the lamp or feel the breeze around the immobile objects so he's not tripping everywhere? But that seems... preposterous. Dark simply doesn't affect Inquisivision.