Is Lopen a Surgebinder?

[WayneSpren]

At the end of WoR, Lopen sucks in Stormlight and heals his arm, stating that "there is glowing to be done!"

 

I thought that meant he is now a Surgebinder, but we are also told in WoR that the Knight's Radiant were not just the Surgebinders, they were also the people that follow them.

 

So is Lopen now a legit Surgebinder, or is this an side effect of being close to Kaladin?

[blad3mast3r]

He is a squire of Kaladin. They can ony do the basic stormlight, no lashings or surges, just increased strength/healing/speed

 

by the way, how did you get that cool summoning-blade-smiley?

[Oudeis]

Have we gotten confirmation anywhere that a) he's a squire 2) he's specifically Kaladin's squire and lastly, that squires get access only to basic Stormlight?

[WayneSpren]

He is a squire of Kaladin. They can ony do the basic stormlight, no lashings or surges, just increased strength/healing/speed

 

by the way, how did you get that cool summoning-blade-smiley?

I think Turos made them. They're called Sprenmoticons.

[blad3mast3r]

I think Turos made them. They're called Sprenmoticons.

 

how do i get them?

[Yata]

Have we gotten confirmation anywhere that a) he's a squire 2) he's specifically Kaladin's squire and lastly, that squires get access only to basic Stormlight?

He seem to be not bond with any Spren.

And in the Dalinar's Vision (at Purelake) the squire don't use any surge, only the stormlight powerup.

[Oudeis]

Okay. I'll take that as a, "no, none of those things have been confirmed."

[natc]

I don't think the term Squire has even been used by a character existing in the present, so yeah you do have a point.

[Yata]

I don't think the term Squire has even been used by a character existing in the present, so yeah you do have a point.

Well in the plains some bridgemen are says to glow from stormlight, so i suppose that they are a squire and no little-surgebinder.

 

Then seems that Lopen don't have a Spren-bond, or at least he never speaks with is "spren", Lopen thinks to could use the stormlight to put somebody at the wall. The only Radiant with the Adesion power are Windrunner and Bondsmith.

I think we could put out the Bondsmith of the discussion, and Syl says "I'm the only Honorspren, to came in the Physical Realm".

 

Maybe is not a 100% sure prove, but at least I think is more plausible for Lopen to be a squire.

PS: Sorry for the poor English

Edited September 4, 2015 by Yata

[Ansalem]

Well in the plains some bridgemen are says to glow from stormlight, so i suppose that they are a squire and no little-surgebinder.

 

Then seems that Lopen don't have a Spren-bond, or at least he never speaks with is "spren", Lopen thinks to could use the stormlight to put somebody at the wall. The only Radiant with the Adesion power are Windrunner and Bondsmith.

I think we could put out the Bondsmith of the discussion, and Syl says "I'm the only Honorspren, to came in the Physical Realm".

 

Maybe is not a 100% sure prove, but at least I think is more plausible for Lopen to be a squire.

PS: Sorry for the poor English

 

All true, but if he is somehow a full Radiant and not just a squire, him thinking he can stick someone to a wall doesn't mean he actually could. He might be from a different Order and not know it yet. The only Surgebinding powers he knows about are Kaladin's so of course he would just assume he would have the same ones. People in this world know basically nothing about the Knights Radiant and Surges.

 

He is probably a squire, though.

[Yata]

Is not a 100% sure prove ineed.

 

But at least, Is strange for him to don't tell everyone (at least in the Bridge 4) of a strange-followind Spren, and Rock will probably see this "spren".

[Oudeis]

Ym was enough of a Truthwatcher to use Surges, and barely saw, let alone spoke with, his spren.

 

I, too, believe the Lopen is a squire. I'm just trying to make a distinction. I see a lot of people post theories on the boards, using as evidence things people assume but don't actually know. Sometimes I get a little pedantic about it; I'm sorry if this was one of those times.

[sanderfuss]

I don't think the term Squire has even been used by a character existing in the present, so yeah you do have a point.

Kaladin was told of the so called squires of the Knights Radiant by Teft once szeth had been slain. Explaining that's probably why a few members of bridge 4 were "glowing". Obviously it isn't proof that Lopen isn't a surge binder but I think it's safe to assume that the members of bridge 4 that can consume stormlight will be Kaladins' squire's.

[Oudeis]

Did he? I don't recall him saying, "They were glowing because they are your squires, which b-t-dubs is a thing." I think he just said, "I saw some of the lads glowing," without explanation. Do you have the quote?

 

Also, I think my views on how reliable Teft is when it comes to the Knights Radiant are pretty well-known by now.

[Arondell]

Did he? I don't recall him saying, "They were glowing because they are your squires, which b-t-dubs is a thing." I think he just said, "I saw some of the lads glowing," without explanation. Do you have the quote?

 

Also, I think my views on how reliable Teft is when it comes to the Knights Radiant are pretty well-known by now.

 

I believe this is the relavant quote.

 

 

“Kal,” Teft said, voice getting even softer. “At the end there, right before you arrived . . . Storms, son, I swear I saw a couple of the lads glowing. Faintly, with Stormlight.” “What?”“I’ve been listening to readings of those visions Brightlord Dalinar sees,” Teft continued. “I think you should do the same. From what I can guess, it seems that the orders of the Knights Radiant were made up of more than just the knights themselves.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 1047). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

As for your views on Teft's reliability when it comes to information about the Knights Radiant.  Well...It would be nice if you could site a single example of any statement he made about the Knights that was incorrect.  Every example I've been able to find of his assertions has been, so far as I have been able to determine, accurate.  His knowledge is obviously incomplete but what he does know, and has mentioned, has been accurate.

[Oudeis]

He tells Kaladin that every Radiant has every Surge. I'll try to find the quote when I get home from work today.

 

Exactly how many things that he says about the Radiants ends up being true? From what I can recall, he knows the First Oath, and he is aware that Stormlight somehow gets from spheres to inside of people, though he has no idea what the mechanism is. I cannot, off the top of my head, recall anything else he says about them that we know for sure one way or the other is true.

 

There's also the fact that we have from his perspective, when he watches Kaladin fight, that nothing about a Radiant will make them fight better. I get into large, contentious debates about it, but from all the evidence I can see, I literally don't understand how anyone can believe Kaladin's skill is anything other than supernatural. If he's not getting it from the Nahel bond, he's getting it from somewhere, and it seems to come-and-go with his bond. And is characterized by the wind visibly warping around his body.

 

EDIT: While we're at it, let's attack his credentials. 100% of what he learned about the Knights Radiant (beyond what just everyone knows) was taught to him when he was a child, before running away, from people who believed you could turn into a Knight by trying to kill yourself. How much could he possibly know?

Edited September 4, 2015 by Oudeis

[Arondell]

On the five ideals of the Knights Radiant.

 

 

“Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. That was their motto, and was the First Ideal of the Immortal Words. There were four others.” Kaladin raised an eyebrow. “Which were?” “I don’t actually know,” Teft said. “But the Immortal Words—these Ideals—guided everything they did. The four later Ideals were said to be different for every order of Radiants. But the First Ideal was the same for each of the ten: Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 831). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

 

Regarding the orders interacting with each other.

 

“Do you know much of the others?” Teft had been the first one to figure out what Kaladin could do. He’d known before Kaladin himself had. “Not much,” Teft said with a grimace. “I know the orders didn’t always get along, despite what the official stories say.

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 158). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

 

 

Regarding the nature of Kaladin's abilities.

 

 

Teft had only a fragmentary recollection of the things his family had tried to teach him, but those memories all agreed. Stormlight did not grant skill. It could not make a man into something he was not. It enhanced, it strengthened, it invigorated. It perfected.

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 928). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

 

Each of these is corroborated by at least one other source in either Way of Kings or Words of Radiance.

 

I believe the part your referring to is this.

 

 

Kaladin rolled his eyes and sat back up. “Why am I listening to you? You’ve admitted that you don’t know any more than I do.” “I don’t know anything about using the Stormlight,” Teft said, scowling. “But I know what should happen.” “According to stories that contradict one another. You’ve told me that the Radiants could fly and walk on walls.” Teft nodded. “They sure could. And make stone melt by looking at it. And move great distances in a single heartbeat. And command the sunlight. And—”

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 830). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

 

This statement is true in and of itself though imprecise and certainly does not invalidate everything else he says.

[Oudeis]

Kaladin's abilities: You point out Teft saying a thing, and then follow it up with a simple, "This is corroborated." Is it? I do not believe it is. Nowhere in either book is there evidence that Kaladin's skill is wholly natural, and there is a ton of evidence that it is not. Do you have any of this corroborating evidence? We all already knew that Teft claims to be an expert; the question now is, is he? Teft's own self-assessment is not, I think, an unbiased source.

 

The final passage, about Radiants having every power... note at the end, Teft is cut off. I notice you don't include the next few lines, wherein Kaladin says, "That's can't be true, why would someone both flying if they can just teleport?" To which Teft replies first with silence, and then, "i don't know."

 

The statement is NOT true in and of itself, because it's obvious Teft believes every Radiant had every Surge, and we know that's false. If Teft knew that different Orders had different abilities, presumably he would have said that, instead of saying he didn't know how his obviously contradictory statement could be true. I'm not talking about it invalidating everything else he says; my argument is not, "Teft doesn't know literally anything about the Radiants," my argument is, we cannot accept something as true just because Teft says it is. The fact that he has a few details right, but others wrong, is evidence that he cannot be trusted blindly when he tells us things we don't yet know are true.

 

For the other two points... those are vague, and incredibly minor. in fact, for one of them, I'm not actually going to accept that "a large organization made up of people had a bit of internal conflict" is a "fact" that Teft is special for knowing. So basically, I'm conceding that Teft was aware the that Knights swore oaths.

 

Compare this to him being wrong on Kaladin's skill, him being wrong on every Radiant having every Surge, him having no idea how a Radiant Invests... The original contention, which I disagreed with, is that if Teft says something is so, we should accept it as likely until proven false. He's been wrong more often than he's been right. If he says something about the Radiants, I'm prepared to accept that it might contain some small measure of truth, once separated from the chaff of his misunderstandings and false convictions. I am not willing to believe it is simply true.

 

And it's worth pointing out, from the quote above, the whole "squire" thing isn't even based on anything Teft knows by being an "expert". He admits, he's only saying it because he's been hearing about Dalinar's visions. This isn't even Envisager lore! Literally anyone who has read the same text knows as much as Teft does.

 

To restate, I actually do agree that the Bridgemen are almost certainly Squires, and almost certainly Kaladin's Squires. I also do believe the Lopen is a Squire, though I'm less positive, and that he's Kaladin's Squire, although wouldn't it be cool if he were Shallan's? I just don't think that Teft saying it should weigh the argument in either direction very strongly.

 

Finally, I'm a little miffed that you cut off your quote when you did. You must've read the next few lines and realized it cut your argument to shreds. The fact that you included it anyway, trimmed to erase context, is poor form.

 

EDIT: Where arguments have failed to sway me, an anonymous downvote has done the job. I have changed my mind, and officially concede that Teft is, in fast, an expert in all things Surgebinding.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Oudeis

[KiManiak]

...

EDIT: Where arguments have failed to sway me, an anonymous downvote has done the job. I have changed my mind, and officially concede that Teft is, in fast, an expert in all things Surgebinding.

 

So I read your post, then refreshed the page and had already upvoted you for it to cancel the downvote when I saw the Edited last paragraph. 

 

To get back to the topic of the OP, my response is: I could argue it either way.  

 

Pro Squire arguments:

• Dalinar's Purelake vision showed a Knight Radiant, as well as (what we believe to be) that Radiant's squires glowing and aiding the Radiant in their work
• After killing Szeth, Kaladin returns and is told that some of his bridgemen (who were, of course, helping our proto Radiant in his work of defending Dalinar and the Kholin family)
• Teft comparing the bridgemen glowing to what he had heard from Dalinar's visions
• Word of Peter that some of Kal's squad had exhibited squire-like tendencies (those are my words, not his) by healing quicker than normal in Way of Kings;
• Lopen is one of Kaladin's most loyal bridgemen, and Kal trusts Lopen with King Elhokar's life;
• Lopen is seen glowing near the end of Words of Radiance
• no visible proof of a spren

 

Pro Surgebinder (which I will interpret to mean proto-Radiant, since for all we know Squires could surgebind) argument:

• Lopen inhales Stormlight (which we've only seen our proto-Radiants do);
• Lopen is able to drastically heal a damaged part of his body incredibly fast (which we've only seen our proto-Radiants do);
• Some of Kaladin's bridgemen that survived Szeth's attack were still described as having lost limbs (Chapter 86) or bore wounds (Chapter 87) from the fighting. And they were in close proximity to Kaladin.  Lopen is able to access Stormlight and fully heal his limb from leagues away.

 

It's clear that the circumstances regarding Lopen's superhuman abilities and Kal's other bridgemen's superhuman abilities are somewhat different, from what we've seen to date.  I would just caution jumping to the conclusion that Lopen is a Squire without more evidence..

 

Edit: I changed Lopen's healing from "almost instantly" to "incredibly fast."  We only see a nub grow back onscreen before all of his Stormlight ran out, but speculation is that once he got access to more spheres and Stormlight, the rest of the arm grew back just as fast.

Edited September 4, 2015 by KiManiak

[Arondell]

Kaladin's abilities: You point out Teft saying a thing, and then follow it up with a simple, "This is corroborated." Is it? I do not believe it is. Nowhere in either book is there evidence that Kaladin's skill is wholly natural, and there is a ton of evidence that it is not. Do you have any of this corroborating evidence? We all already knew that Teft claims to be an expert; the question now is, is he? Teft's own self-assessment is not, I think, an unbiased source.

 

The final passage, about Radiants having every power... note at the end, Teft is cut off. I notice you don't include the next few lines, wherein Kaladin says, "That's can't be true, why would someone both flying if they can just teleport?" To which Teft replies first with silence, and then, "i don't know."

 

The statement is NOT true in and of itself, because it's obvious Teft believes every Radiant had every Surge, and we know that's false. If Teft knew that different Orders had different abilities, presumably he would have said that, instead of saying he didn't know how his obviously contradictory statement could be true. I'm not talking about it invalidating everything else he says; my argument is not, "Teft doesn't know literally anything about the Radiants," my argument is, we cannot accept something as true just because Teft says it is. The fact that he has a few details right, but others wrong, is evidence that he cannot be trusted blindly when he tells us things we don't yet know are true.

 

For the other two points... those are vague, and incredibly minor. in fact, for one of them, I'm not actually going to accept that "a large organization made up of people had a bit of internal conflict" is a "fact" that Teft is special for knowing. So basically, I'm conceding that Teft was aware the that Knights swore oaths.

 

Compare this to him being wrong on Kaladin's skill, him being wrong on every Radiant having every Surge, him having no idea how a Radiant Invests... The original contention, which I disagreed with, is that if Teft says something is so, we should accept it as likely until proven false. He's been wrong more often than he's been right. If he says something about the Radiants, I'm prepared to accept that it might contain some small measure of truth, once separated from the chaff of his misunderstandings and false convictions. I am not willing to believe it is simply true.

 

And it's worth pointing out, from the quote above, the whole "squire" thing isn't even based on anything Teft knows by being an "expert". He admits, he's only saying it because he's been hearing about Dalinar's visions. This isn't even Envisager lore! Literally anyone who has read the same text knows as much as Teft does.

 

Finally, I'm a little miffed that you cut off your quote when you did. You must've read the next few lines and realized it cut your argument to shreds. The fact that you included it anyway, trimmed to erase context, is poor form.

 

Kaladin's ability is corroborated by Syl.  Explicitly.

 

 

“So everything I’ve done,” Kaladin said. “My skill with the spear, the way I fight. That’s not me. It’s you.” “It’s us.” “It’s cheating. Unearned.” “Nonsense,” Syl said. “You practice every day.” “I have an advantage.” “The advantage of talent,” Syl said. “When the master musician first picks up an instrument and finds music in it that nobody else can, is that cheating? Is that art unearned, just because she is naturally more skilled? Or is it genius?”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 613). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

So, as I also said in the other thread where you discussed this, two in world sources, one which I do view as an authority on the subject, agree on this.  I'll need either a word of Brandon or something in world explicitly countering this to believe otherwise.  I was hoping at the time to get some friends of mine in Boston to ask him at the signing, that was unfortunately cancelled, about this.  Fortunately there is another one coming up next month where they will get a chance to do so.

 

I'll include the extra here for completeness and form.

 

 

“I don’t know anything about using the Stormlight,” Teft said, scowling. “But I know what should happen.” “According to stories that contradict one another. You’ve told me that the Radiants could fly and walk on walls.” Teft nodded. “They sure could. And make stone melt by looking at it. And move great distances in a single heartbeat. And command the sunlight. And—” “And why,” Kaladin said, “would they need to both walk on walls and fly? If they can fly, why would they bother running up walls?” Teft said nothing. “And why bother with either one,” Kaladin added, “if they can just ‘move great distances in a heartbeat’?” “I’m not sure,” Teft admitted.

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 830). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

 

My apologies if you felt I was incomplete.  I still feel he was not trying to firmly assert that all the Radiants could do all things.  As you pointed out he himself was unsure about that. He understands the limits of his own knowledge.

 

As for the last two points you claim they are incredibly minor and "vague".  I'm perfectly willing to concede the very minor point.  I'm not as willing to concede the vague point since I see them as specific pieces of information that the general public didn't know and regardless of how minor and vague they were they were still correct.  Is Teft an "expert" on the Radiants?  Hardly.  His knowledge is imperfect, incomplete, and very limited.  Something he is clearly aware of based on several statements he makes.  Though he has shown enough correct knowledge of the Radiants that I'm not willing to automatically assume anything he says as wrong.  Back in that other thread I recall you basically stating that you automatically assumed him wrong unless proven otherwise.  Which I thought was overstating the issue.

 

As for his knowledge of squires your totally right.  It is clearly based on his personally witnessing some of the members of bridge four glowing and listening to some of the readings of Dalinar's visions.  His guesses are reasonable supposition based on that and not special prior knowledge.

[Oudeis]

"It's us."

 

That's explicit proof that it IS the Bond. She doesn't say, it's just you. She admits, this "talent" he has with the spear, it's because of both of them, not just him. Without the bond, he wouldn't have it. That is flat-out corroboration that Teft is wrong.

 

If it were something solely of Kaladin without Syl's influence, unchanged by the Bond, how does it make any sense for her to reply, "It's us"? You see the word "talent" and are making the assumptive leap that all talent must be natural-born. This time, the talent is coming from the bond. Shallan's "talent" at drawing is clearly supernatural; as much practice as she's had, no one in real life, not even people with "photographic memory", can do what she does. It's a talent. And it's supernatural. Just like Kaladin's fighting is a talent, and it's supernatural. She's making the analogy to make him feel better, because he thinks that being given fighting talent is somehow "cheating" and she's saying, different people have different levels of talent for different reasons. It's no more "cheating" for you to have skill with the spear by virtue of a nahel bond, than it is for an excellent flautist to have skill with the flute by virtue of being born that way.

 

This keeps being a sticking point with us... what we're currently discussing is whether or not Teft is an expert. You can choose to take everything he says at face value if you'd like, but if you're going to try to prove the point "Teft is an expert" you cannot use "because Teft says he is" as an argument. It assumes the premise. If you, as you say, choose to believe Teft, more power to you. But you have to understand that that's not a rational point in favor of the idea that Teft actually is an expert; you must provide outside corroboration before it can be taken as fact. I've proven Teft wrong many times. You've proven him right about random scraps of information too vague to be of any use, and too vague to disprove.

 

I don't even know what to say anymore. We're reading the same passage. Syl admits that Kal's fighting skill is partially due to her. And you're saying it's proof positive that she has nothing to do with it. I can't think of what else to say.

 

In the other thread... I may have been guilty of a bit of hyperbole. As I've said here, I obviously do at least consider what Teft says to be a starting point. I was sort of making fun of how certain he is when he's usually pretty wrong, or vague, or finally admits he simply doesn't know. I don't think I ever really meant that I'd assume the opposite if he says something (though about Kaladin's fighting skills, he's obviously dead wrong), and I'm sorry I wasn't more clear that I was making fun of him, rather than making a serious point.

[Arondell]

Strangely, I have a similar but kind of opposite reaction in my impression of what you were saying.  My impression was that you were saying that without the bond Kaladin has no real skill with the spear at all.  That his capabilities were entirely due to the bond.  Given that he trained almost fanatically for years in the army I find that hard to accept.

 

My perception was that Kaladin was at least very competent with the spear and when it was combined with the bond it enhanced him to superhuman levels.  Which is what both Syl says and Teft believes.  Which is again why I'm looking forward to getting my friends in Boston to ask Mr. Sanderson about it at the Boston signing.  Explicit clarification would be nice.

 

I'll say again that Teft is obviously not an "expert."  That being said he obviously knows more then the average person.  Enough that he was able to recognize what was going on before Kaladin himself did from a few clues that no one else noticed.

 

Other then that...Your are again correct.  Their really isn't anything more to say. 

[Oudeis]

That isn't even close to what I'm saying.

 

Teft's statement was clear. The bond can perfect, but it cannot grant skill. Teft was absolutely certain that while Kaladin might be faster, stronger, with more endurance due to the bond, 100% of his skill came from himself, not from the bond. I'm saying we know, for a fact, that's not true. Sure, he's trained a ton, for years, and even when his supernatural talent is stripped from him he's still got his training to fall back on. But Teft was wrong. A portion of Kaladin's skill came from the bond.

 

 

Which is what both Syl says and Teft believes.

 

Nope. Teft is unequivocal. The Bond might enhance Kaladin's physical attributes, but it cannot grant any skill at all. And from the very first time Kal picked up a staff, Syl's bond was there to make him supernaturally good. The very first time he ever fought, in his entire life, without supernatural skill was when he jumped into a chasmfiend's mouth. That was his first experience in literally ever fighting without magical talent.

 

Eh... It is technically the case that Teft knows some things most people do not. The problem is, he also THINKS he knows a bunch of stuff about which he is flat wrong. I would much rather someone like Sigzil, who knows absolutely nothing, but is able to start building real knowledge from actual data, as opposed to someone like Teft, who has a great many things he is sure is right, when something like 75% of them are wrong. Better to be unsure, then sure-but-wrong.

 

Of course, best ever is someone like Jasnah, who has dug through a great many records, does her own tests, and is trained in how to separate fact from fiction from ancient reports.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Oudeis

[Ansalem]

That isn't even close to what I'm saying.

 

Teft's statement was clear. The bond can perfect, but it cannot grant skill. Teft was absolutely certain that while Kaladin might be faster, stronger, with more endurance due to the bond, 100% of his skill came from himself, not from the bond. I'm saying we know, for a fact, that's not true. Sure, he's trained a ton, for years, and even when his supernatural talent is stripped from him he's still got his training to fall back on. But Teft was wrong. A portion of Kaladin's skill came from the bond.

 

 

 

Nope. Teft is unequivocal. The Bond might enhance Kaladin's physical attributes, but it cannot grant any skill at all. And from the very first time Kal picked up a staff, Syl's bond was there to make him supernaturally good. The very first time he ever fought, in his entire life, without supernatural skill was when he jumped into a chasmfiend's mouth. That was his first experience in literally ever fighting without magical talent.

 

Eh... It is technically the case that Teft knows some things most people do not. The problem is, he also THINKS he knows a bunch of stuff about which he is flat wrong. I would much rather someone like Sigzil, who knows absolutely nothing, but is able to start building real knowledge from actual data, as opposed to someone like Teft, who has a great many things he is sure is right, when something like 75% of them are wrong. Better to be unsure, then sure-but-wrong.

 

Of course, best ever is someone like Jasnah, who has dug through a great many records, does her own tests, and is trained in how to separate fact from fiction from ancient reports.

 

I feel like you're playing pretty loose with definitions. You're saying that Teft is wrong to say that Kaladin's skill improves by the Bond because some of Kaladin's skill comes from the Bond. Teft and you are both right. Actually I would say that Teft is more right than you are.

 

If you are right that some portion of Kaladin's skill is directly from the Bond rather than the Bond improving his natural talents then that would mean any non-warrior who has a Bond should automatically be a more skilled fighter than average. This is clearly not the case. Renarin is still clumsy despite training by a sword master. The way Syl describes it is perfectly apt. Having a Bond might make you predisposed to achieving a higher level of skill but you still have to put in the actual work. Kaladin's skill is all Kaladin, anything he does beyond that is adaptation to a new tool. He killed the chasmfiend without the Bond, something a trained full Shardbearer would have difficulty doing. When he dances with the wind it's nothing more than years of trained instinct guided by heightened senses in the moment. I know he says he feels like he could dodge with his eyes closed, but notice that he doesn't actually close his eyes.

 

Also, nowhere does it show that the first time he picked up that quarterstaff that there was anything supernatural about his skill. He got beat pretty soundly. Just because it felt right to hold doesn't mean anything. Some people are just naturally more inclined to certain activities than others. When a child musical prodigy with synesthesia sits down at a piano and plays a melody the first time, you don't equate it with supernatural aid. Which is exactly what Syl meant. She said herself that she wasn't there, she was still searching for him at the time. 

 

If you are familiar with skill floors and skill ceilings, the Bond raises the skill ceiling but not the skill floor.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Ansalem

[DreamEternal]

I would add that the bond apparently acts as a skill multiplier, allowing one to reach mastery needing much less time than otherwise, as long as there is some natural talent to work with. If the bond simply granted the skill, then we could expect that if a baker bonded a honorspren he would become a great warrior, or that Elhokar would discover amazing drawing skills if he bonded a cryptic, wich is ridiculous.

It is shown in the Dalinar vision where he fights the midnight essence along with the radiants that they see those talented in useful skills like combat as potential recruits or at least squires. This could be because the greater the original ability, the more it benefits from the bond. Stormlight doens't give skill, but it does perfect it.

Edited September 5, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern