Dead spren?

[ivoryblade]

What does it mean when spren die? They lose their sentience in the physical realm, but are they still sentient in the cognitive realm?

[natc]

Even sticks are sentient in the cognitive realm. It's a realm made entirely out of thought, after all, of course everything in there thinks. I don't think "sentient" is the word we're looking for here.

Edited September 2, 2015 by natc

[Bort he/him]

Cognizant maybe?

 

When a Spren dies in the physical world, they are returned to the cognitive realm, more like a banishment than an actual death.

 

This is why...

 

WoR Spoiler

When Syl dies in WoR, she is able to return so quickly.

 

This is what I believe anyways.

[Corax]

I don't have enough caffeine in me to cite things usefully, but my understanding is that it depends on how the spren 'dies.' Nahal-bound spren are sort of calcified when 'killed' by broken vows. They can be revived if the vows are resworn, but are effectively dead otherwise. Most of the 'normal' shardblades floating around out there are sort of zombified.

 

Otherwise, spren can be killed by other spren, and probably other ways, and we don't know what happens then.

 

The other thing that spren consider 'dead' seems to be to lose the sense of self. That's what happened to Syl. She became as the primordial spren—wind spren—relatively mindless and lacking true personhood. That is death to a Nahal spren.

 

(Of course, this is primarily speculation on my part. Whee, speculation!)

[kaellok he/him]

I think that if the dead spren were merely (effectively) banished to Cognizant Realm upon physical death, that the Stormfather and other spren wouldn't be so upset at humans post Recreance. It really seems like the"dead" spren are in a coma-like state until forced to appear, which then feels like torture--hence, screaming.

WoB also had it that Radiant betraying the Oaths results in something physically similar to yanking a data jack out of the spren, a la The Matrix.

[Corax]

I think that if the dead spren were merely (effectively) banished to Cognizant Realm upon physical death, that the Stormfather and other spren wouldn't be so upset at humans post Recreance.

 Yes, exactly. Spren 'naturally' exist primarily in the Cognitive Realm, and it is extremely taxing for them to transfer themselves to be more in the physical realm, as Syl, Pattern, and Wyndle have all expressed. I think that while all things exist in all three realms, moving your consciousness from one to the next is harder than just changing your focus, so to speak. I suspect that to remain 'in' the Physical Realm, the Nahal spren usually have to have a bond to anchor them there, or at least to maintain their intelligence.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Even sticks are sentient in the cognitive realm. It's a realm made entirely out of thought, after all, of course everything in there thinks. I don't think "sentient" is the word we're looking for here.

 

Brandon has used the word "sapient" for this distinction.

[Ansalem]

Brandon has used the word "sapient" for this distinction.

 

As should everyone else. People almost always mean sapient when they say sentient.

 

Sentient means aware of your environment, or able to feel or perceive things. Anything with even a rudimentary brain is sentient. Gnats are sentient. Worms are sentient. Technically, your PC might be sentient depending on how strictly you want to define it.

 

Sapient means of at least human level intelligence. Although you could probably argue it out to be a bit broader than that. Some apes might be sapient, for example, because they are capable of some level of abstract thought. Humans are just a convenient mile marker more than a strict threshold. Intelligence is awfully fuzzy.

 

Note that neither one of these words actually means self-aware. Theoretically a sapient being could be non-sentient or not self-aware, though that seems incredibly unlikely in actuality. The three concepts are separate and could exist independently, though.