Possible Origin of Shardplate? (Spoilers WoR)

[SirTraconus]

Yep, that's the post I saw! That's awesome! Great theory man and you deserve most of the credit for this, if not all. What do you think of how its evolved here?

 

I don't think I deserve all that credit. The theory was based off of a question some one else asked Brandon after all. 

 

As far as how I think of how its evolved, well, I (obviously) subscribe to the major/minor spren theory. I think I called them sister spree, but yours makes more sense. The WoB about the gemstones being added later gives this more credibility, I think. 

 

I guess it could also be solid stormlight, we just haven't seen any evidence of solid stormlight in the books though.

 

I don't think at all that they are fabrials (sp?) or created by the Bondsmiths. The WoB about the gems being added later, disproves the fabrial theory. Bondsmiths have the surges adhesion and tension. Adhesion we've seen Seth and Kaladin use, so we know how that one works, and WoB says that tension is making things ridged, e.g. making a scarf act like a sword. I don't see how those two surges could be used to make something like shardplate.

 

No, but this is great. I'm going to make this my first espoused theory, once I figure out how to do that.    

[02ranger]

I don't think I deserve all that credit. The theory was based off of a question some one else asked Brandon after all. 

 

As far as how I think of how its evolved, well, I (obviously) subscribe to the major/minor spren theory. I think I called them sister spree, but yours makes more sense. The WoB about the gemstones being added later gives this more credibility, I think. 

 

I guess it could also be solid stormlight, we just haven't seen any evidence of solid stormlight in the books though.

 

I don't think at all that they are fabrials (sp?) or created by the Bondsmiths. The WoB about the gems being added later, disproves the fabrial theory. Bondsmiths have the surges adhesion and tension. Adhesion we've seen Seth and Kaladin use, so we know how that one works, and WoB says that tension is making things ridged, e.g. making a scarf act like a sword. I don't see how those two surges could be used to make something like shardplate.

 

No, but this is great. I'm going to make this my first espoused theory, once I figure out how to do that.

By all the credit I meant between the two of us you deserve the credit. I just piggy-backed off your Reddit post. I'm pretty much on the same page as you as far as how it's all developed. I could possibly see the solid stormlight thing being true, but definitely not fabrials. And of course I believe the spren theory is the most likely.

[thegatorgirl00]

Shardplate adjusts to the wearer's size too, so it's not too much of a stretch to believe the Oathgates can do the same if they're made from the same "materials". Although I'm not sure what to say about who is defining them. None of my ideas right now really make sense.....

My impression from when Shallan Soulcast the ship was that any object could change in the physical realm if it had enough sentience in the cognitive realm and it wanted to change. All Shallan really did was convince the ship that it should change. Although I assume there is also some way tfor experienced Soulcasters o Soulcast items that don't want to change, since I doubt a person's body would want to turn into smoke.

[Djarskublar]

I think I may have something to add to this.

 

Assuming that this spren thing is the real deal, we have to deal with why the Plate exists and why it works the way it does. First off, I think that this spren thing is entirely reasonable. But, why does the plate form physically? Spren aren't Physical beings, so the boss spren must be doing something that makes the spren want to be Physical in the same manner as a Blade. This seems similar to soulcasting to me. I think that since the lesser spren aren't sentient, they are more like a particular stick. So they are sitting there and 'thinking' that, "I am Plate that fits well," instead of, "I am the wind." Then without a boss spren to direct them, they can't change back, just like some soulcast grain doesn't change back into rocks after a while.

 

That seems reasonable.

 

The second problem is the nature of the Plate in it's physical form. No thoughts yet on why it gives you Radiant-like physical capability, but I can definitely say something about why it breaks and forms the way it does. The theory that Plate is manifest Stormlight makes sense, too, and I realized that to a degree they might both be right. The lesser spren create the mold, and then you fill it with Light. The spren are still manifesting, but they are given form by the Light. Then when you whack it with a Blade, it damages the (Spiritual?) connection of the Light to the spren. Because the Plate is manifest Investiture, it doesn't do an amazing job cutting it, but does better than a normal Physical object would. Then, after you deal enough damage to it, the Plate cracks. My thought here is that Light isn't leaking here, it is sublimating at the cracked edges. The spren are then trying to maintain their Physical manifestation of their Cognitive identity by using Light from the gems in the Plate to reconnect it.

 

The problem with this idea, then, is the reason that regular weapons and rocks can still do this to Plate, it just takes longer. I think there may be a few reasons this works. One is that everything has an aspect in all three Realms, so they may be able to affect this connection just based on this, just to a much lesser degree than something with a lot more Investiture. Another thing that may apply is that since the spren are manifesting Physically, they can be affected by Physical objects more than normal. This lets, say, a maul interact with (read: smash) the spren and damage its connection to the Light, as well as the cohesion of the Light itself.

 

Another thing that needs mention is why you pump Light into the Plate to repair it. This is a very easy answer. The spren has been wounded just like any other being, and it needs more Investiture to heal itself. Perhaps when the Physical chunks of it have become separated, the spren has actually shattered like an Adonalsium or Shard does. Since it is such a relatively small piece of Investiture and sentience compared to a god or a Shard, it just needs a band-aid to put it back together. Not some world changing event, just some Light consumption.

 

This makes a lot of sense, and I am open to criticism of this. Just my three cents.

 

After having typed that all out, I may have thought of a reason the Plate grants superior physical capability. The Plate is doing all of the work. The wearer is giving it direction via muscle movement, and it performs its functions via consuming itself. Since Plate is probably an excellent container for Light, using some of it in the manner a Radiant uses Light by breathing it in, it doesn't leak off extra power. Beyond that, since the Plate isn't using any Surges, it doesn't have the serious drain on power. I definitely get the impression that when Kaladin is using Light, most of the power goes to leakage or sometimes Surges. Since Plate has neither leakage nor Surges (that we know of, hehe) it is safe to assume that the power drain of physical enhancement is negligible until the Plate is damaged and using everything it has just to maintain itself. This one I am much less sure of. At least the why is still unclear, not the reason it lasts so long if it doesn't get damaged.

 

 

Another hypothesis entirely here: the Plate is the Physical body of a Shard. Stormlight is the gas form of Honor. Honor has a pool somewhere (likely in the Horneater peaks, but I don't know enough about that, and it hasn't been confirmed to my knowledge). So what is 'his' Physical body? Perhaps, whatever it is, is alloyed into the Plate, or the Plate just is the body, and there is a lot more of it than there is Lerasium or Atium for some reason. This reason could be that since Honor was shattered, and a lot more Light is available than there likely was before, maybe the pool got bigger, and suddenly there was a whole bunch of Tanavastium lying around to make into Plate. This seems like kind of a waste, though. There have got to be way cooler uses for the chunks of a dead god (reckoner tech, anyone?).

 

I don't think this alternate hypothesis is likely at all, but I am just throwing out the possibility.

 

TL;DR/summary

The spren provides a framework for light to get dumped into, forming Plate. Then when it is damaged, it needs more Light to repair both the Plate and the spren itself. Light isn't leaking from Plate when damaged, it is sublimating from the damaged edges.

[Lirins hand]

NatC asked: 

 

If shardplate and the oathgate slot are locked spren, then I wonder where they wrote down the measurements for them.

 

I would think they are written down in the safest place you could find in the world.  On Roshar that would have to be 1) a place unaffected by the highstorms - Shin or 2) a place protected from the highstorms - Kharbranth Library, perhaps the artwork on the ceiling or the doors. 

[Bejayds]

I've been thinking, so syl mention they both contributed to the bond and got something more from it. With each oath was a different level of contection, Kal (I know it's nothe the full name auto correct keeps changing it) got stormlight, syl got her memories, after the last oath Kal was able to store storm light better and syllabus got a physical for as a shard blade. What if the shard plate was a growth like the parashendi's warform armor. It would be able to store storm light like a radiant and gave added attributes from the spren and it maybe mostly human in origin so it couldn't scream like a shard blade and it would effect lashings because it's a physical part of the person not a worn object.

Another point that shows this is a possibility it the paRashendi comparing them selves tof humans and surgebinders. "We are like broth and the humans are the meat" I believe surgebinders/radiant can bond more completely with the soren. That shard plate is on onlyrics when the spren is inside of the radiant like paras ending in warform and when the radians broke the oath it could have possible separated the mind confining it only to the shard blade. Or the plate is mostly radiant growtha but to a much more complete state than the parashendi warform

Edited February 13, 2016 by Bejayds

[CJ Feboris]

I'm typing on a phone so I apologize for the beer it's and any misspellings. I think Lirin's Hand is really onto something here about secrets. I'm not sure the secret of Shardplate will be stored in any place as I still think it will be a development of the oaths, but I think that we have seen some pretty good foreshadowing about the storing of secrets in Urithiru. I think we will get a lot of reveals in the next book especially when Jesnah gets to the city in the sky.

[Bejayds]

I just read this in WoR Shallan pushed storm light into pattern and he made a slightly irate buzzing noise I believe shard plate could be pure storm light condensed into physical for by the mind of the spren when this also explains why the KR were able to use lashings because the spree would be directing the stormlight ND the spren can hold storm light too the spren would power the suit and why they glowed the spree feeding it to the plate be the gemstones feeding it.