Wild Speculation regarding the second and third Mistborn trilogies

[Windborne Sword he/him]

So in the aftermath of the Final Ascension we know that Kelsier is sticking around in the Cognitive Realm with Sazed, while Vin and Elend are happily enjoying themselves in the Spiritual Realm (Somewhere) and they aren't coming back. However Sazed is working on a way to bring people back to life. We also know from an interview with Brandon, I don't want to find the exact quote, that Kelsier's bones survived the Final Ascension and are somewhere. 

 

I think that Kelsier is going to be coming back sometime in the second or third trilogies. 

 

Evidence to support it:

• Brandon has said that Vin and Elend are not coming back, specifically those two. However he makes no mention of Kelsier.
• We know that Kelsier loves to meddle around and is probably causing Harmony no end of annoyance doing so in the Cognitive Realm
• Like I said above his bones are still there and Harmony can repair damage to a body as we see when he reattached Elend's head in the field of Mare's flowers at the end of HoA.
• Harmony has somehow made it so that the area around Elendel will never ever be over farmed and will always be perfect for growing food. 
• Marsh is still around and is doing Harmonies work, or so we think. He also is very conspicuous and would make a terrible agent to do thing quietly without people being suspicious. The spikes in his head and the tattoos are really out of place in Alloy of Law.
• The Kandra are also going around spiking people, like Wax, so that they can communicate with Harmony and Harmony can communicate with them. However they seem to take very little action other than that.
• Kelsier hates Hoid. As far as we know he's only met Hoid once, in the first book and he wasn't trying to kill Hoid at the time, in fact he sounded like he respected Hoid.

 

 

With the above evidence showing that while Harmony doesn't exactly meddle in the day to day affairs of the world; he does go around making sure that things aren't going to hell and that the descendants of his friends are at least alright. Bringing back Kelsier as a personal hitman when Marsh would be too conspicuous would make a lot of sense and he might even make Kelsier a full keeper as well in order to keep himself alive afterwards.

 

Evidence Somewhat Contradictory:

 

 

AETHLING

Is there a chance that any dead protagonists will miraculously come back (IE Vin, Elend, Lightsong) to help fight later battles? You have shown Kelsier having influence after he died, and Sazed makes a statement about keeping in touch with Vin and Elend.

BRANDON SANDERSON

I don't want to be unsympathetic to people's love for these characters, but I feel that as a writer I must resist the urge to bring back characters in this manner. I feel it would undermine my storytelling. I never want to get to the point where people read and the tension of a character being in danger is ruined by the thought, "Well, even if they die, they'll probably just be brought back in the future."

I'm not saying I won't ever do it, but I want to be very sparing. I like how Robert Jordan did it with a certain character's return in TofM. It was foreshadowed, built into the story itself, and relevant.

There are characters--in the 36-book-cosmere-superoutline--who return when thought dead. Some have not met their perceived end yet, while others have. So it's going to happen, but I want it to be very rare.

 

However this doesn't mean he can't bring back Kelsier! He said it's going to happen, albeit very rarely. 

 

 

Edit: Found a quote from Brandon on bringing people back. Sorry for the blue outline around Elend's name it's how I am searching for this quote regarding Elend and Vin's current location

 

 

 

 

Quotes I'm referencing above in case you want to read them.

 

Regarding Kelsier's Bones:

 

 

IWINULOSE2

In Mistborn 3, What happened to Kelsier's bones, and will they play any significance in any of the sequels?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The bones survived the events of the last book. We might see them again. Speaking of relic-like items, Sazed's rings survived as well. We might see those again.

 

 

Regarding Sazed/Harmony being able to bring people back:

 

 

DARXBANE (17 OCTOBER 2008)

The note to Spook states that Sazed hasn't yet figured out how to put souls back into bodies. Is he going to learn that skill eventually (I'm expecting a RAFO here, but I figured I'd ask anyway)?

BRANDON SANDERSON (17 OCTOBER 2008)

RAFO. (Sorry, but this is plot sensitive for a future series.)

Edited June 26, 2013 by Windborne Sword

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Are they in the spiritual realm?  All I could find about them was this

HoA Q and A

DALENTHAS (15 OCTOBER 2008)
Did Sazed leave information about how his new religion should be run for Spook and the others to find? His note to Spook implies that there is an afterlife...
BRANDON SANDERSON (16 OCTOBER 2008)
Sazed didn't immediately leave this, as he was too focused on other things. The next period of time will be difficult for Sazed, as he essentially sees himself as an avatar of deity—the force of Preservation—and not God with an upper case letter. He's still not sure what Truth is 100%. And there is an afterlife, but it's probably not what you're thinking. In other words, Sazed has not touched Heaven or Hell, and actually doesn't yet know what the final beyond contains. He has, however, run into some people who have been sticking around something of a middle place. It's related to the larger cosmology, and I'm afraid that I'll need to RAFO anything further.

[Windborne Sword he/him]

Are they in the spiritual realm?  All I could find about them was this

 

I swear seeing a quote on this, or it might have been from the signing I was at in February in the Powell's at Cedar Crossing in Beaverton, OR.  I'm pretty sure there is a quote, and it's not from the signing however. 

 

I do know for a fact that Kelsier is in the Cognitive Realm I've seen several sources on this as that is how he is able to take up the reigns of Preservation for the short time in between Leras and Vin. 

 

Also to clarify the part with Hoid and Kelsier hating each other, I think we can assume to mean that while travelling through Shadesmar, Kelsier and Hoid have met and they aren't very happy with what the other is doing. 

Edited June 26, 2013 by Windborne Sword

[Morsk he/him]

I think association of the Spiritual Realm with the afterlife comes from Roshar beliefs. Roshar is probably just wrong though, either that or it has a local mini-afterlife that isn't as final as what Brandon was talkign about.

[Windborne Sword he/him]

I think association of the Spiritual Realm with the afterlife comes from Roshar beliefs. Roshar is probably just wrong though, either that or it has a local mini-afterlife that isn't as final as what Brandon was talkign about.

 

I don't think the Tranquiline Halls is the Spiritual Realm either, I think it's another planet probably Yolen. That's another topic all together though.

 

What we are talking about is where Vin and Elend are, and IIRC Sazed mentions in the letter that Spook reads at the end of HoA that they have moved on to the afterlife or something like it. I still think that there is a quote on where they are exactly from Brandon as well, but I'm having trouble finding it.

 

Edit: If all else fails send Brandon an @ question on twitter on the subject.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Windborne Sword

[ROSHtafARian]

Its frustrating me to no end because I can't find the relevant quote (and I'm sure Phantom will whip it up in two seconds anyway), but I've seen a lot of people reference this idea that Hoid and Kelsier hate each other due to a question someone asked Brandon on reddit, and that isn't accurate from what I remember.  I believe Brandon said something about Hoid and Kelsier WOULD hate each other, if they knew each other well.  He went on to explain that Kelsier is essentially a sociopath in some ways, and if circumstances had been different he'd be a pretty bad guy....he only ended up one of the good guys because all his worst tendencies were channeled towards fighting a greater evil (ironically not unlike the Lord Ruler himself).  But yeah, a lot of people have been basing ideas around Hoid and Kelsier having some kind of beef with each other, but the quote that originated that idea is being misrepresented I think, and was really just meant to convey that they have personalities and methods that would clash with each other.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/1ced7z/iamstilla_novelist_named_brandon_sanderson_ama/c9fqdn5?context=3

AptoCanavalian:

Dear Brandon, If you could have a dinenr party with six of the characters that you have written about, which six would you choose and why? Would your answer change if the party was in someone else's house?

Brandon:

Well, it would be tough--I'd have to decide if I wanted the party to be crazy, interesting, or low risk.

For example, inviting Hoid and Kelsier to the same party could result in murdering. Having Sazed around with someone like Jasnah would lead to some great discussions of philosophy.

In the end, I'd probably pick the core WoT cast, just because they've been my friends for so long. Longer than anyone other than Wit and Dalinar, actually. So Perrin, Rand, Mat, Egwene, Nynaeve, and Thom. Fourth book era.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/1ced7z/iamstilla_novelist_named_brandon_sanderson_ama/c9fslle?context=3

Wait--are you implying Hoid and Kelsier would want to murder each other, or that they would team up to murder other people?

Brandon:

Hoid and Kelsier do not get along. At all.

[Windborne Sword he/him]

Its frustrating me to no end because I can't find the relevant quote (and I'm sure Phantom will whip it up in two seconds anyway), but I've seen a lot of people reference this idea that Hoid and Kelsier hate each other due to a question someone asked Brandon on reddit, and that isn't accurate from what I remember.  I believe Brandon said something about Hoid and Kelsier WOULD hate each other, if they knew each other well.  He went on to explain that Kelsier is essentially a sociopath in some ways, and if circumstances had been different he'd be a pretty bad guy....he only ended up one of the good guys because all his worst tendencies were channeled towards fighting a greater evil (ironically not unlike the Lord Ruler himself).  But yeah, a lot of people have been basing ideas around Hoid and Kelsier having some kind of beef with each other, but the quote that originated that idea is being misrepresented I think, and was really just meant to convey that they have personalities and methods that would clash with each other.

 

Like Phantom quoted in the post above, they hate each other.

 

I wish I had a copy of the Mistborn Books in any other form other than my Audiobooks files. I'd find the part where Hoid and Kelsier interact and quote it, because right after Kelsier leaves Hoid he uses one of Hoid's tricks to improve his disguise when meeting Straff Venture and mentally thanks him afterwards. IIRC it goes something like this. 

 

"My eyes lord they aren't what they used to be, I can barely see my fingers anymore." Kelsier to Straff Venture

"Thanks for the tip Hoid!"Kelsier thinking to himself

 

Kelsier obviously respected Hoid at that point in time, but sometime afterward it changed.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Well, Kelsier had no idea who Hoid was at that point beyond 'a well heeled informant'.

[Windborne Sword he/him]

Well, Kelsier had no idea who Hoid was at that point beyond 'a well heeled informant'.

 

 

True, but I'd imagine Kelsier would respect Hoid more for that. His quote about there always being another secret and everything.

[Shardlet he/him]

I think the dinner party quote is not specific enough to say that Kelsier and Hoid hate each other.  I suspect it is more a conflict of vision and personality.  We have only seen Hoid in a position where he is trying to nudge events.  We have not seen him in a conversation with someone who may have similar goals.  I suspect Hoid will turn out to be very driven and self-assured.  Kelsier is also likewise driven and self-assured.  If the two of them have conflicting ideas about how things should be done, even if they have the same end goal (perhaps especially so), then I would expect them to have heated unbending arguments about it (i.e., they don't get along at all).

[Abevan]

Personally I would like to see Kelsier as the villain in the second trilogy. Given what we know about the second trilogy it's possible, particularly when Kelsier's nature is taken into account.

[Windborne Sword he/him]

Personally I would like to see Kelsier as the villain in the second trilogy. Given what we know about the second trilogy it's possible, particularly when Kelsier's nature is taken into account.

 

I'll admit I thought of Kelsier immediately when Brandon said that the SWAT team of mistings was going after a Mistborn serial killer. I'd rather he not be a villain though, or not the Big Bad at least.

[MasterGhandalf]

Considering that two post-Hero of Ages books have had characters who are essentially villainous twists on Kelsier (Denth in Warbreaker and Miles in Alloy), bringing back the actual Kelsier to use as a villain seems kind of redundant thematically, unless Brandon had a really great twist to put on it.

[Windborne Sword he/him]

Considering that two post-Hero of Ages books have had characters who are essentially villainous twists on Kelsier (Denth in Warbreaker and Miles in Alloy), bringing back the actual Kelsier to use as a villain seems kind of redundant thematically, unless Brandon had a really great twist to put on it.

 

True. However Brandon could probably pull it off. 

[Observer]

The crucial thing to think about here is Kelsier is still around. Brandon's kept him hanging out in the cognitive realm for a reason, whether it be eventual ressurection or some other plot-significant role.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

The crucial thing to think about here is Kelsier is still around. Brandon's kept him hanging out in the cognitive realm for a reason, whether it be eventual ressurection or some other plot-significant role.

Actually, he originally wasn't planning for Kelsier to be around.

[DocHoliday he/him]

LoL this thread is seriously of topic. To the task at hand! Has any sort of time frame been established between trilogies? I imagine the Final Empire being like circa 700 AD, trilogy 2 like 2000 AD, and trilogy 3 like 2700 AD. 

 

Sazed leaving behind so much info dramatically increased the rate at which science evolved in AoL. Certainly it would have to settle down at some point, but they've got trains, sky scrapers, and mini guns only 3 or 4 hundred years after Vin. Guys, that's less than 2 centuries ago ,technologically speaking, to us. Imagine Operation Iraqi Freedom with Steel Pushers, Sliders, and Soothers...my God, IED hell...

 

Rioting panic in the after math of a nuclear detonation...BS has alot to work with and possible alternate histories.

 

My personal desire is to see human Hemalurgical experimentation take off (ya I'm a twist like that..  ). To date the only things we've seen are the creation of TLR knock offs, but what would happen with 2 charged spikes of pewter and a Zinc Ferring? Or teams of Interpol Tineyes?

 

I'm not even going to wander into future fantasy land

[Phantom Monstrosity]

LoL this thread is seriously of topic. To the task at hand! Has any sort of time frame been established between trilogies? I imagine the Final Empire being like circa 700 AD, trilogy 2 like 2000 AD, and trilogy 3 like 2700 AD.

 

I believe he said that Modernborn would be around a century or so after AoL.

[DocHoliday he/him]

And given that AoL Is only 150 years or so behind current day technology were still considering tech from the 1980,'1990s. Possibly modern-day. I gotta say, I'm quivering in my little space boots about the idea of a slider d dropping claymore in front of a column of advancing platoons and anti-tank mines under the treads of M1Abrhams tanks. Seriously, Allowmancy takes guerrilla war-fare to a whole nother level.

[Windrunner he/him]

I'm pretty sure I heard Mi'ch say that the second trilogy would fall 50ish years after Alloy. If I remember right, we're looking at a 1960's tech level, although it won't be precisely the same since Scadrial is further ahead in some fields and further behind in others.

[Pechvarry]

I still just want L-trains for the Lurchers.

 

I think all warfare changes with enough mistings and ferrings.

 

Tineye and Zinc ferring fighter pilots.  Tanks are still valuable as they're too heavy to be affected by any mortal coinshot/lurcher (while bringing all the advantages they do here on Earth), but they're vulnerable to steelrunners darting in with anti-tank weaponry.  Imagine a platoon popping a Nicrobursted Bendalloy bubble in the middle of a firefight, taking a single building, clearing it out (I assume such a bubble would be very large), and setting up in tactical positions all before the bubble comes down.

 

Pewter seems, humorously, rather weak on large scale war efforts.  But I can imagine a Brute (Ferring) pulling off some pretty interesting tricks.  aka Hulk smash tank.

 

I can even imagine cadmium helping with those "hurry up and wait" scenarios.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Sorry Pech, but in my infinite wisdom I have deduced that it is unlikely that Nicrobursted bendalloy bubbles last for any length of time from the "insider's perspective", instead just pouring all the extra energy into getting bigger. So you could encompass a building, but not for long enough from your perspective for it to matter.

 

I suppose a burst-Cadmium bubble could be either/or--so long as the user only experiences a brief moment--now that I think of it, but definitely just getting bigger for a split second for Bendalloy. You could still Pulse an enemy position and keep them in stasis for the duration of a critical moment in the battle, with 1 Pulser essentially knocking out a very large number of resources.