Do all Shards have equal power/influence in all three realms?

[ROSHtafARian]

You keep implying that metals aren't a focus.

 

You can be clearer by not saying "Scadrial --> physical --> metals" and then saying you understand that metals aren't a focus. Those two statements are contradictory. Either metals are a focus, or they are not.

 

I see where the confusion lies now, but I never said anything remotely like 'I understand that metals aren't a focus'.  I simply said I was altering my theory to pertain to the form a Shard's direct Investiture takes on a planet, rather than to the focus of its magic.  I then went on to describe examples.  It just so happens that on Scadrial, metal is both a focus and an Invested object, unlike planets like Nalthis where there is no crossover.  That doesn't mean I didn't understand metals were the focus on Scadrial, just that focuses weren't what I was talking about, and what I was actually talking about just so happened to also pertain to metals.

[Senor Feesh]

Point of order: apart from Lerasium and Atium, and presumably their alloys metals aren't Invested. Humans on Scadrial have innate Investiture, metals are a 'key'. This doesn't affect your theory, just being pedantic, and making sure we don't confuse other Sharders.

[Nepene he/him]

The metals aren't invested. The metals cause your body to be invested e.g. pewter invests your muscles. This has long standing and significant effects, and can make you a savant.

 

You can't have a savant made of steel, only a human steel savant. The same is true on Sel, you invest your bodies to become Elantrians or boney monks.

 

Edit. As Senor said, with the exception of the god metals. And feruchemy and hemalurgy, I guess, though there they also invest your body.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Nepene

[ROSHtafARian]

Point of order: apart from Lerasium and Atium, and presumably their alloys metals aren't Invested. Humans on Scadrial have innate Investiture, metals are a 'key'. This doesn't affect your theory, just being pedantic, and making sure we don't confuse other Sharders.

 

Fair enough, I was actually going to point out the same thing, that technically the pattern of a metal's molecular composition is the focus, but I was afraid it'd come across pedantic, haha.  However, on a similar note, humanity's Innate Investiture on Scadrial was not a natural occurrence, but a specific manipulation stemming from Ruin and Preservation's quite unusual agreement to work together to create humanity on Scadrial.  The normal Investiture stemming from Shards' interaction with Scadrial would seem to be when their power is infused into the god metals, which was what I was referring to all along.  Which goes along with what Nepene mentioned earlier about how its possibly implied that Odium would have a god metal if he came to Scadrial.

Edited May 28, 2013 by ROSHtafARian

[Leuthie]

If metals aren't Invested, why can't Shards see them?

I haven't posted my Gaia theory (aka Two Gods, One Cup Theory) of Planetary Investiture, but what if Scadrial itself is Invested in its metals? In turn, this imparts the opening that the Shards use to create their own Investitures. As parallels, Roshar is Invested in stone (gems being more molecularly organized versions of stone), Nalthis is Invested in life and its many colors (biochroma), and Sel is Invested in its own shape and configuration (hence why a big gsh in the land itself breaks Aons).

Shards can make use of the openings that the planetary Investitures provide, but can't change them. At least that's the quick and dirty explanation.

[Nepene he/him]

Fair enough, I was actually going to point out the same thing, that technically the pattern of a metal's molecular composition is the focus, but I was afraid it'd come across pedantic, haha.  However, on a similar note, humanity's Innate Investiture on Scadrial was not a natural occurrence, but a specific manipulation stemming from Ruin and Preservation's quite unusual agreement to work together to create humanity on Scadrial.  The normal Investiture stemming from Shards' interaction with Scadrial would seem to be when their power is infused into the god metals, which was what I was referring to all along.  Which goes along with what Nepene mentioned earlier about how its possibly implied that Odium would have a god metal if he came to Scadrial.

 

All the worlds may well have some sort of physical god metal variant. The moon sceptre may be it on Sel, the tears of Edgli on Nalthis, there's probably something on Roshar like dark spheres.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=691#7

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=680#11

 

On the tears. They can be used to power lifeless. Although Brandon says that while Endowment does have a physical god material, it doesn't appear on screen.

[Joe ST he/him]

The metals aren't invested. The metals cause your body to be invested e.g. pewter invests your muscles. This has long standing and significant effects, and can make you a savant.

Gonna need a citation for that. As Senor said, Scadrians are innately invested, the metals only act as a key. I've never heard anything from Brandon that says that the metals work in the way you suggest.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Gonna need a citation for that. As Senor said, Scadrians are innately invested, the metals only act as a key. I've never heard anything from Brandon that says that the metals work in the way you suggest.

I think you might be misreading him?  As far as I can tell what he means is that the metals act as a key to start up an investment of the person, but aren't invested themselves.  Lemme dig up the quote.

 

Alloy of Law Ars Arcanum

 

Allomancy is the most common of the three. It is end-positive, according to my terminology, meaning that the practitioner draws in power from an external source. The body then filters it into various forms. (The actual outlet of the power is not chosen by the practitioner, but instead is hardwritten into their Spiritweb.) The key to drawing this power comes in the form of various types of metals, with specific compositions being required. Though the metal is consumed in the process, the power itself doesn’t actually come from the metal. The metal is a catalyst, you might say, that begins an Investiture and keeps it running.

In truth, this isn’t much different from the form-based Investitures one finds on Sel, where specific shape is the key—here, however, the interactions are more limited.

 

I think you guys might be agreeing with each other.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Nepene he/him]

Gonna need a citation for that. As Senor said, Scadrians are innately invested, the metals only act as a key. I've never heard anything from Brandon that says that the metals work in the way you suggest.

 

Since I agree that the metals act as a key I am unsure what you disagree with.

[Senor Feesh]

http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=977#5

Chaos

Is there a Cosmere-specific term you use to describe, say, a Shard’s power inside someone? For example, people on Scadrial had little bits of Preservation in them that made them sentient (and, with enough Preservation, Allomancy). This obviously doesn’t make these people Slivers or Splinters, so I was just wondering if you had a word for it.

Brandon Sanderson

In my own terms, I refer to all of this as types of investiture. The degree, and effects, can be very different—but those people are invested. I term this Innate Investiture, and it is similar to what happens with people on Nalthis. That is also innate

Sorry for poor formatting, on mobile phone.

So humans on Scadrial contain a small amount of Ruin and a little more Preservation. Enough extra Preservation gives you the ability to use metals as access keys for drawing external power from elsewhere (probably the Spiritual realm, but I'm unsure if that's canon or just common theory). That extra Preservation is considered Innate Investiture.

As far as Nepene's statement about metals causing you to be more Invested, I'd say Phantom's quote from the Ars Arcanum supports it, but it should be noted that the extra Investiture lasts only as long as you keep the metal burning. Becoming a Savant is a side effect of heavy use and damage to your Spiritweb; I don't think it makes you any more Invested though.