+Vonotar Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 OK, first (second, if you count my hello post) post, and first theory, as I am 80% through Warbreaker and also read Way of Kings... Here we go. I think that in addition to the Shard Endowment that gives Breath, there must have been another force present that gave Returning Life. I've been snooping around the varius wiki articles about the Shards, and Endowment is the only one shown for Nalthis. In the letter from Way of Kings, Hoid said the "element is safe"...I posit that there is a Shard that has as a power associated with it the ability to Return people from the dead. Perhaps Hoid took it from Nalthis and hid it to be better able to fight Odium when the time was right? Perhaps to rebuild? Not sure. I could be dead wrong. Still very new at this. The rabbit hole beckons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepene he/him Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 The magic system, where breaths can be used to animate objects, came from Endowment's intent's interaction with the world, the returned came from Endowment empowering people's breaths with his powers of creation and creating a splinter. Brandon explicitly confirms that Endowment called Lightsong (and presumably other returned) back. www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=428#59 Nice guesses on most of those. You've got some things right. You've got some things wrong. The only thing I'll confirm (and I don't think I've said this before) is that The Voice is, indeed, one of the Shards of Adonalsium. (Endowment is that Shard's true name, by the way.) Shards have immense power and any of them likely could rebuild a person from the dead. The main issue for them is catching their souls before they go to heaven or hell or whatever where they are harder to reach. The Mistborn annotations talk a bit about this. Whatever Hoid's element is, it is likely something which only grants a small amount of power, not enough to make him a significant threat to Odium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtafARian Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 I might be wrong, but I believe we have the Word of Brandon that Endowment is the only Shard on Nalthis, at least as of the time Warbreaker takes place. Regardless, to endow something is to equip or supply it with a talent, ability or quality, so bestowing new life or a second chance on a person fits perfectly in with Endowment's Intent. I see nothing inherent in the act of Returning that would require another shard's influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnut he/him Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 I might be wrong, but I believe we have the Word of Brandon that Endowment is the only Shard on Nalthis, at least as of the time Warbreaker takes place. Regardless, to endow something is to equip or supply it with a talent, ability or quality, so bestowing new life or a second chance on a person fits perfectly in with Endowment's Intent. I see nothing inherent in the act of Returning that would require another shard's influence. True: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=689#25 KChan These are things that I overheard. Brandon Sanderson Kelsier was not spiked. Part of the Lord Ruler's motivation for setting up The Final Empire was revenge against the people he viewed as encroaching on his people's land. He was also obsessed with creating order, which Ruin later exploited. The Ars Arcanum in the books were all written by one person. The author of the Ars Arcanum is either Hoid or a member of the Seventeenth Shard. Brandon also pointed to an annotation on the map of Elendel that's relevant to this question. There's just the one system in Warbreaker, and it's also a world with only one Shard on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Vonotar Posted May 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 No sweat, and I just finished Warbreaker 15 minutes ago. I suppose I didn't quite grasp the complete meaning of "Endowment". Thus the folly of speculation before finishing a given novel is exposed. I'll come back better informed next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnut he/him Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Welcome to the forums! (Why didn't I think of welcoming you in the the first post... hmmm) I hope I did not seem abrupt disproving this. I just wanted to help with the small knowledge I have gathered. Not even the greatest theorisers (I'm far from one of them) on this site is able to keep all of the facts in their head even if they have seen them so the only thing to do for all of us is to learn more. =) Most theories are disproved but it is better to try than not at all. =) This is a good theory when done before reading Warbreaker completely. I look forward to your next one =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Vonotar, I'd caution you to treading very carefully on these forums if you haven't read all of Brandon's books. If you don't mind spoilers read on but I'd recommend waiting a bit before diving into the Cosmere Theories. I posit that there is a Shard that has as a power associated with it the ability to Return people from the dead. You are definitely on to something here. I am pretty sure there are at least 2 shards that do some strange things with dead Souls. Elantris, Way of Kings and Warbreaker all discuss ways this can happen. Brandon explicitly confirms that Endowment called Lightsong (and presumably other returned) back. Has he ever explicitly said the original soul of Lightsong is in the body with the Divine Breath? I always assumed this, but today I stopped to consider what would happen if you collected 5-10k breath and invested them all into a dead body with the command, "Live". We know Clod retained part of his skill with weapons and desire to defend helpless women. And Lightsong has no memories of his previous life. Could enough Breath (or a divine Breath) give a lifeless sentience even in the absence of the original soul? I would say yes, since a steel blade was granted a semblance of sentience, flawed though it may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leuthie Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Lightsong had memories of his previous life. He just couldn't bring them up at will. He dreamed about his first death at the end of the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepene he/him Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=689#15 A Drab can not Return as the Returned are known, and there are things about the Drab that are not completely understood. But a Drab without a Breath, it�s going to be very hard. Drabs do not Return. Good question, by the way. No one has ever asked me that before. You need a breath to return, implying it is your original soul that is modified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leuthie Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 It could also be that Endowment can't see Drabs or can't see them in a way that enables him to Return them. "Returned are known..." is a weird statement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Note that a lifeless CAN return, and you end up with a 'drab god'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 I'm kind of confused as to what you mean by that, Phantom. I might be missing something obvious because I'm terribly tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 I'm kind of confused as to what you mean by that, Phantom. I might be missing something obvious because I'm terribly tired. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2383-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/?p=42189 6. What would happen if, right after someone died, they were made into a Lifeless, and then Endowment tried to Return that person? Oooh...now that's a spicy one. Endowment's gift of a superpowered Breath would come down, strike the Lifeless, and all kinds of craziness would occur. You'd end up with a drab god, which would be hilarious. It's a weird side-case, but I think it illustrates an important difference between lifeless and drabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Huh, neat quote. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 It's a weird side-case, but I think it illustrates an important difference between lifeless and drabs. In some ways, lifeless and drabs are perfect opposites. Lifeless are essentially dead bodies which have a breath which animates them, while drabs are living bodies which are short their "standard-issue" breath. If you could somehow get the breath away from a lifeless and into a drab, you would get a whole person. So I'm not so certain if this is a weird side-case, or somehow gets at the essence of the question "What is breath?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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