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Predicting the results of atium alloys

SwiftSteel

By SwiftSteel
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SwiftSteel

SwiftSteel he/him

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So far, we (the readers) only know of one atium alloy: malatium, an alloy of atium and gold.  

 

Malatium is an external Pulling metal

Atium is an external Pushing metal

Gold is an internal Pulling metal

 

So if malatium receives the "external" from atium and the "Pulling" from gold, would it be the same with every other atium alloy?  Would all atium alloys be external, and all lerasium metals internal?  Or is it too risky to theorize based on only one atium alloy?

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Senor Feesh

Senor Feesh

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Atium and Malatium don't actually belong to those sections of the chart though (in truth Cadmium and Bendalloy do). Because of that, it might mean the internal/external pushing/pulling aren't correct for those metals either. I'm not saying they are wrong, only that they could be.

 

I think the only confirmed info on Atium beyond it's pure form, is that alloys would create 'various expanded temporal effects'. Seeing as Malatium has an obvious shared property with gold, we can speculate on other alloys being related to the original metals. Perhaps [tin/Atium] lets you see/hear/smell the past? I'm not sure how this would pan out for emotional Allomancy... hmm...

 

Saying that, what would [Atium/bendalloy] or [Atium/cadmium]? The only thing I can think of of-hand is swapping the external to internal, and having the time-effect only affect the user - or, gods, even catapult the user into the past or future (incidentally I despise time-travel  - paradoxes are a major pain in the rear).

 

There's no harm in speculating, just be prepared for others to agree/disagree with you using logic no better informed than the logic you're using - we just don't know enough yet to really have anything concrete.

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skaa

skaa he/him

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Saying that, what would [Atium/bendalloy] or [Atium/cadmium]? The only thing I can think of of-hand is swapping the external to internal, and having the time-effect only affect the user - or, gods, even catapult the user into the past or future (incidentally I despise time-travel - paradoxes are a major pain in the rear).

Normal Cadmium Allomancy already sends the user to the future via time dilation. My guess is that Atium-Cadmium shows a vivid vision of the user's future, like being in the future but only in his mind. And unlike Electrum and Atium shadows, the vision would seem real, kinda like Dalinar's last vision that showed the future.

This power could be used by Worldhoppers like Hoid to know where he might need to go.

Edited by skaa
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yahas

yahas he/him

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I don't think we'll learn much about Atium alloys in Shadows of Self. I've always felt that Brandon is keeping these things under wraps for the modern/future Mistborn trilogies. 

After all, if he told us everything right now (and he's told us quite a bit even, since HoA came out), how would he use his twists in the new books?

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skaa

skaa he/him

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I'd be content with him revealing just one Atium alloy from the Physical metals.

 

I wonder if he'd RAFO the Allomantic effect of Atium-Tin.

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Pechvarry

Pechvarry

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I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't actually worked out what exactly all the god metal alloys do for sure. He didn't have Hemalurgy all set up by the time he was done writing TFE.

 

Ditto Feruchemy, as Brass can attest.

 

---

 

Some (COMPLETELY) random guesses at Atium alloys:

 

Iron makes target metal object newer (like a Forgery?)

Steel ages target metal object.  Rust attacks.

Tin - got nothin'

Pewter perhaps defies aging.  Best anti-age cream you could ever hope for.  If this were true, Tin could make you older.  Or vice versa.

Bronze - could detect the potential for allomancy, even if they've never Snapped (though I guess people don't actually Snap anymore?).  Given the whole Atium/Ruin thing, the ability to detect the presence of Hemalurgic spikes would be neat, but that's not temporal.

 

The Enhancement metals are interesting and horrifying, as I could see their effects being permanent.  Nicrosil to permanently boost the power of target allomancer, Chromium to remove the capacity for allomancy.  The other 2 would still be duds, though Duralumin is pretty funny in that regard: continually make yourself better at doing nothing.

 

The interesting thing about Feruchemy is that the effects could already be considered temporal, as you're shuffling attributes through time.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Atium alloys would be identical, perhaps with different store/tap rates and conversions.  e.g. maybe you couldn't choose to store/tap just small amounts of an attribute.

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Phantom Monstrosity

Phantom Monstrosity

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I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't actually worked out what exactly all the god metal alloys do for sure. He didn't have Hemalurgy all set up by the time he was done writing TFE.

I actually would not be surprised if Brandon hadn't figured out how many there were yet.

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Phantom Monstrosity

Phantom Monstrosity

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Brandon's responded to people's guesses about the number of Allomantic metals with things like, "nearly," so I think he probably has a number in mind at the very least.

He's been kinda inconsistent about it.  There are apparently 'way more than sixteen' atium alloys for each metal, but there are also 'nearly' fifty allomantic metals, and the ars arcanum says there are sixteen atium alloys total.

 

So really I think it's in a state of flux.

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Kurkistan

Kurkistan he/him

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He's been kinda inconsistent about it. There are apparently 'way more than sixteen' atium alloys for each metal, but there are also 'nearly' fifty allomantic metals, and the ars arcanum says there are sixteen atium alloys total.

So really I think it's in a state of flux.

 

Those statements combined don't demand that the number of atium alloys be in flux.

atium + 16 atium alloys + 16 Lerasium alloys + 16 normal metals = 49

atium + 16 atium alloys + 16 Sazedium alloys + 16 normal metals = 49

atium + 16 atium alloys + 16 ????ium alloys + 16 normal metals = 49

If the second set of 16 is somehow alloyed with atium (Sazedium, perhaps?) then we get a neat little answer to the ambiguity. In order to stay beneath the "50 roof", we have to assume the base metal for the second set isn't properly allomantic by itself, which also works if Sazedium makes Feruchemists.

Actually, assuming Brandon never misspoke, this essentially tells us that Sazedium exists as an alloy of Atium and <something> (almost certainly Lerasium), isn't a proper allomantic metal by itself, and can be alloyed with the 16 base metals for allomantic effects.

 

EDIT; Realized I'd misread the evidence, then that I still had a valid point to make, so did some significant changery.

Edited by Kurkistan
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Phantom Monstrosity

Phantom Monstrosity

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Those statements combined don't suggest that the number of atium alloys is in flux.

atium + 16 atium alloys + 16 Lerasium alloys + 16 normal metals = 49

atium + 16 atium alloys + 16 Sazedium alloys + 16 normal metals = 49

atium + 16 atium alloys + 16 ????ium alloys + 16 normal metals = 49

If the second set of 16 is somehow alloyed with atium (Sazedium, perhaps?) then we get a neat little answer to the ambiguity. In order to stay beneath the "50 roof", we have to assume the base metal for the second set isn't properly allomantic by itself, which also works if Sazedium makes Feruchemists.

Actually, assuming Brandon never misspoke, this essentially tells us that Sazedium exists as an alloy of Atium and <something> (almost certainly Lerasium), isn't a proper allomantic metal by itself, and can be alloyed with the 16 base metals for allomantic effects.

 

 

17th Shard

Are there a limited amount of atium and lerasium alloys for each metal?

Brandon Sanderson

Hmm, yes…I suppose there would be but there are…

17TH SHARD

More than sixteen?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah, way more than sixteen.

17TH SHARD

Oh wow. Okay. That's fascinating. More than sixteen and less than infinite.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes.

 

That 'for each metal' is the thing.

Edited by Phantom Monstrosity
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Kurkistan

Kurkistan he/him

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Hmm. I tend to be wrong when I assume Brandon made a mistake in his worldbuilding, so I'm still going to say that, if the only other option is contradiction, you can (charitably) interpret that quote as "for each metal" meaning just misting-creation for Lerasium (including atium-alloy mistings and Sazedium ferings, presumably) and, for atium, including atium alloys with other god metals at the same time as base metals.

Edited by Kurkistan
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Phantom Monstrosity

Phantom Monstrosity

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Hmm. I tend to be wrong when I assume Brandon made a mistake in his worldbuilding, so I'm still going to say that, if the only other option is contradiction, you can (charitably) interpret that quote as "for each metal" meaning just misting-creation for Lerasium (including atium-alloy mistings and Sazedium mistings, presumably) and, for atium, including atium alloys with other god metals at the same time as base metals.

I'm just assuming it's still up in flux.  Dude's giving off the cuff answers for systems he hasn't finished yet.

Edited by Phantom Monstrosity
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skaa

skaa he/him

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Posted

Are there a limited amount of atium and lerasium alloys for each metal?

...

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah, way more than sixteen.

English is just my second language so I might be wrong, but can't you interpret that as "There are way more than 16 Lerasium and Atium alloys combined"? If there are 16 Atium alloys and 16 Lerasium alloys, that's 32 God Metal alloys, which is "way more than sixteen".

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Kurkistan

Kurkistan he/him

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You can, but that is not a very natural interpretation. Also, the context of the interceding

"Brandon Sanderson

Hmm, yes…I suppose there would be but there are…

17TH SHARD

More than sixteen?"

makes it seem that Brandon didn't have the number off the top of his head, suggesting it wasn't something so simple as 32. Now if we're still in my patented Denial Mode, we can say that there are 16 atium-normal alloys, 1 atium-lerasium alloy, 16 atium-lerasium-normal alloys, and 16 lerasium-normal alloys, for a total of 49. That number doesn't exactly roll of the top of your head, and comes about due to some odd arithmetic, so he might have had to take a moment to think about it, rather than simply multiplying 16 by 2 as you suggest.

EDIT: Then you have to decide if an alloy counts if it doesn't have a real Allomantic effect, and so on.

Edited by Kurkistan
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skaa

skaa he/him

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You can, but that is not a very natural interpretation.

 

Alright then. I forgot to include the Lerasium-Atium-normal alloys in my equation, by the way. I don't have a theory yet about how many those would be, but I'm leaning towards 32 Lerasium-Atium-normal alloys (16 with more Lerasium than Atium, 16 with more Atium than Lerasium), mainly because of my theory on the God Metals (here's a relevant post in that thread). I'm still looking for a theory that I like regarding Lerasium-Atium-normal alloys with the same amount of Lerasium and Atium in them.

 

 

Then you have to decide if an alloy counts if it doesn't have a real Allomantic effect, and so on.

 

That obviously shouldn't count. Otherwise there'd be an overwhelmingly huge number of alloys to consider.

Edited by skaa
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