On the Feruchemy of Nicrosil

[Kadrok she/her]

Well, that's one way to interpret it, I'm sure. Would you mind sharing a link to the actual text of the MAG rules? It would make discussions more convenient if we were all on the same page.

I'm not sure it would be legal to do so, however the PDF version is only $15 from the online store. If you have $15 lying around, I highly recommend it... even if I never got to play the game, I would have considered the detailed information in the metals section well worth it. Here's the website: http://www.crafty-games.com/product_catalog/newreleases

 

Anyway, my theory already assumes that the MAG rules aren't all there is to nicrosil Feruchemy. Maybe Terrismen will discover other aspects of Identity later.

On that you are dead right, we don't know everything there is to know about Nicrosil Feruchemy, or indeed Feruchemy itself... Word of Brandon has it that Hoid uses Feruchemy in some precognitive way, and I have certainly not figured that out yet... perhaps a God metal alloy allows you to store "Destiny"? Certainly no more far fetched than Duralumin storing "connection to others" (which based on the MAG affects not just you, but those around you... in some weird metaphysical way)

 

There it is, evidence that you can use nicrosil to access metalminds other than yours. If a Feruchemist with a Nicrosilmind can "store" into other people's metalminds, why can't he tap them? That doesn't seem very consistent.

It's not really storing so much as overloading, though I would think that even a Soulbearer could drain another's metalminds it would be converted into the neutral "Investiture" which is the focus of Nicrosil-feruchemy. Still... as you have said, we don't know everything about Nicrosil-feruchemy, and I'd be very interested both in what we learn from the books, and what further secrets the upcoming Alloy of Law supplement to the MAG reveals.

Have I mentioned my theory that Nicrosil-Feruchemy can be used to fuel Allomancy on this topic, or was that on another board?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

The guess is that since hoid's precognition is super vague, he's just using luck, a map, and a big pile of darts

[PhilV he/him]

The guess is that since hoid's precognition is super vague, he's just using luck, a map, and a big pile of darts

Dang, I'd love to see that map.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Dang, I'd love to see that map.

I've added this to the ultimate list of questions

"Does Hoid ever show up somewhere, stand around for a while, realize that there isn't a novel-worthy plot going on, and leave?"

[Kadrok she/her]

The guess is that since hoid's precognition is super vague, he's just using luck, a map, and a big pile of darts

 

That is the greatest guess in the history of guesses... you'd get two upvotes if I had that power.

 

 

As for wanting to steal from other people's metalminds...skaa... I think I've just found the mother-lode for you... but it's Aluminum not Nicrosil... in one of the From Brandon sections in the MAG... he says it's theoretically possible to tap someone else's metalminds with a proper manipulation of Feruchemical Alluminum. (Seriously guys, buy the MAG. It's $15 and it's full of shiny knowledge)

 

Am I allowed to include the quote on the board, or is that breach of something?

[skaa he/him]

As for wanting to steal from other people's metalminds...skaa... I think I've just found the mother-lode for you... but it's Aluminum not Nicrosil... in one of the From Brandon sections in the MAG... he says it's theoretically possible to tap someone else's metalminds with a proper manipulation of Feruchemical Alluminum.

 

Wow. I edited my other Feruchemy thread on aluminum a few hours ago to take into account the "personality" rules you mentioned yesterday. But now I learn that Aluminum has another ability... and it's incompatible with my new theory. *sigh*

 

Oh well, back to the drawing board. Thanks anyway, Kadrok, for being patient with someone like me who doesn't have a copy of MAG and who's got lots of wild ideas running around his head. I might buy the game one of these days if I ever get some extra cash. 15 US dollars is a significant amount of money here in the Philippines, and I'm not even a gamer so I won't be able to use it much after I've read all of it.

 

I'm gonna try to do a third revision of my Nicrosil theory later with the limits you gave. Ah, what I'd do for a Zincmind right now...

Edited May 14, 2013 by skaa

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

Maybe if you store all your Identity in an Aluminumind you register as a 'blank', and can draw from other people's metalminds?  I would think you'd still need to be able to use the Feruchemical ability in the metalmind before you could do anything with a stranger's metalminds.

 

This thread is both interesting and confusing.

 

There's more fleshed out Nicrosil Feruchemy information than I realized, but there's still a lot of room for new twists and information.

 

We've been told that the more modern-day era Mistborn trilogy will be about a Nicroburst, and I still think that some event will involve them becoming a Nicrosil Twinborn.  And then we would really get to see what Nicrosil compounding could do.

[Kadrok she/her]

Wow. I edited my other Feruchemy thread on aluminum a few hours ago to take into account the "personality" rules you mentioned yesterday. But now I learn that Aluminum has another ability... and it's incompatible with my new theory. *sigh*

 

Oh well, back to the drawing board. Thanks anyway, Kadrok, for being patient with someone like me who doesn't have a copy of MAG and who's got lots of wild ideas running around his head. I might buy the game one of these days if I ever get some extra cash. 15 US dollars is a significant amount of money here in the Philippines, and I'm not even a gamer so I won't be able to use it much after I've read all of it.

 

I'm gonna try to do a third revision of my Nicrosil theory later with the limits you gave. Ah, what I'd do for a Zincmind right now...

 

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be such a downer. The Aluminum quote completely blew my mind, and I look forward to seeing what you do with that rattling around in your head.

[skaa he/him]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be such a downer. The Aluminum quote completely blew my mind, and I look forward to seeing what you do with that rattling around in your head.

 

LOL, no worries. It normally would have blown my mind, too ("All your metalmind are belong to me! Mwahahaha!"), but I was hoping I solved the mystery behind these metals. Anyway, I should be happy because getting a new piece of a puzzle is always helpful in solving it. Thanks again!

[Elend_Rahl he/him]

Maybe if you store all your Identity in an Aluminumind you register as a 'blank', and can draw from other people's metalminds?  I would think you'd still need to be able to use the Feruchemical ability in the metalmind before you could do anything with a stranger's metalminds..

 

If general feruchemical metalminds have a sense of being a part of their feruchemist, the Storing Aluminum to nearly notheing would make you a basically ghost through their recogntion defenses, I think.

 

And I completely agree that to use their storages you'd have to actually be able to use that type of feruchemical power. I don't think you can even feel the energy in the metalmind unless you can actively use that type of feruchemy, Just like allomantic mistings can't feel other metal reserves.

[Shadeshadow227]

Holy moly, Pechvarry! You're right!

 

When a Feruchemist stores something into a metalmind, what he's really doing (in Realmatic terms) is Investing the metalmind with parts of his Physical, Spiritual, or Cognitive aspects. That act is a form of Investiture. That's why you can store a metalmind's contents in a Nicrosilmind (which stores Investiture). You're basically Investing the Nicrosilmind with Investiture from your other metalmind.

 

But we know that Feruchemically stored things are not the only kind of Investiture that can be stored in Nicrosilminds. There's also Investiture from Physical manifestations of Shards (the Mist, or the Well of Ascension), as well as Investiture gained from Allomancy. So... what if all kinds of Investiture can be stored? That would include Investiture taken from Hemalurgical spikes. And since the Spiritual DNA of a typical post-Adonalsium Cosmere human being was Invested to him by a Shard (e.g. Preservation), one's own Spiritual DNA (i.e. the thing that makes you a Feruchemist, or a Mistborn, etc.) should be storable in Nicrosilminds!

 

Alright, I officially revive my original theory (that Nicrosilminds can store abilities) as a valid sub-theory of the larger theory above.

 

Now it's time to develop it further.

 

I further theorize that while nicrosil Feruchemy can receive from any source of Investiture, it can still distinguish which Investiture came from what source. If an Investiture requires a specific Spiritual DNA or Physical DNA, you're going to have to incorporate that into your own body via Hemalurgy. Otherwise, you'll just end up with an inaccessible Nicrosilmind you won't be able to store that Investiture.

 

(Ewww... who'd want to incorporate someone else's Physical DNA into his own? Besides Koloss, I mean.)

 

Anyway, this has a very interesting implication. It means that a Feruchemist with a Nicrosilmind can actually take the contents of another person's metalmind. But it also means that he won't be able to access the stolen content unless it has no Physical or Spiritual requirements (or unless he uses Hemalurgy). But that also means that if the stolen content is just a Cognitive trait, he should be able to access it.

 

Let me repeat: a Feruchemist with a Nicrosilmind can steal the contents of another Feruchemist's Cognitive metalminds.

 

What are the Cognitive metals? Brass, Zinc, Bronze... and Copper.

 

Feruchemists, hide your Copperminds!

 

(Note that it was 2AM when I suddenly woke up and thought this whole thing up. It's 3AM now. I think I'm gonna have to see a shrink after this...)

 

Edit: I crossed out everything that contradicted MAG rules as described by Kadrok. I still think that what's left is a pretty workable theory for nicrosil Feruchemy. It's not as powerful as I originally thought, but that's okay since Feruchemy has always been all about balance, right?

Sorry...read The Bands of Mourning. Aluminum Feruchemy stores Spiritual Identity, and storing Identity while filling another metalmind would allow ANYONE with the right Feruchemical power to access it. Say I'm a Steelrunner, and I have a friend who is a full Feruchemist. He tests out the effects of Aluminum, and gives me a steelmind, a goldmind, and an ironmind to see which ones I'd be able to access. I can tap the Steelmind, but not the Goldmind or Ironmind. Nicrosil has a similar effect to what's assumed, though. When Investiture is stored, it is converted to blank Investiture, meaning it is a "blank" storage. Say I have a bracelet, mainly plastic, with a band of copper and a band of Nicrosil, that I use as metalminds. I store up Investiture, and store one memory,then give my bracelet to a friend without Metallic abilities. He would tap the Investiture, and be able to access the Coppermind, as well as store memories. Seriously, read The Bands of Mourning. I hate having to correct people.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Voidus
Spoilers and also somewhat meaningless

[baby he/him]

I don't want to come across as rude here, but these posts were written waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in 2013. Bands came out only a couple of months ago. Everyone had a skewed idea of nicrosil back then. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Onceler

[skaa he/him]

Sorry...read The Bands of Mourning. Aluminum Feruchemy stores Spiritual Identity, and storing Identity while filling another metalmind would allow ANYONE with the right Feruchemical power to access it. Say I'm a Steelrunner, and I have a friend who is a full Feruchemist. He tests out the effects of Aluminum, and gives me a steelmind, a goldmind, and an ironmind to see which ones I'd be able to access. I can tap the Steelmind, but not the Goldmind or Ironmind. Nicrosil has a similar effect to what's assumed, though. When Investiture is stored, it is converted to blank Investiture, meaning it is a "blank" storage. Say I have a bracelet, mainly plastic, with a band of copper and a band of Nicrosil, that I use as metalminds. I store up Investiture, and store one memory,then give my bracelet to a friend without Metallic abilities. He would tap the Investiture, and be able to access the Coppermind, as well as store memories. Seriously, read The Bands of Mourning. I hate having to correct people.

Thanks for informing my past self from three years ago about the Bands of Mourning, Shadeshadow227. I'm sure he appreciates the FYI about the Identity trick, and humbly accepts the correction. But in his defense, this thread is about Nicrosil Feruchemy, and the Identity trick requires the Nicrosil Feruchemist to have Aluminum Feruchemy as well. If we are to focus only on what Nicrosil Feruchemy can and can't do on its own, then my past self wasn't very far from the truth.

By all means, go read more of the old theory threads. It's a great way of seeing the evolution of fan speculations, and introduces you to the legendary Cosmere theorists who are sadly no longer active (e.g. Isomere and Tempus, among others). Just try to keep in mind that people may not have the same level of Cosmere knowledge in the past as they do now, especially those here who are crazily obsessed with being updated on all things Sanderson.

Edited April 3, 2016 by skaa