Speculative Question: Gallant

[Meg]

I sometimes wonder if the "bond" between a Ryshadium and his rider will come up with a deeper, special meaning. Will Gallant stay with Dalinar? 

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Gallant is actually a shardhorse.

[Meg]

I see, that my OP might be kind of "rude" and short. But there are hints that a Ryshadium is more than a knight's warhorse. 

 

 

 

TWoK Ch. 12 

... but it could never match Gallant, who was a full Ryshadium, two hands taller and much stronger than an ordinary horse. The animals chose their own riders, and only a dozen men in all of the warcamps were so fortunate. Dalinar was one, Adolin another.

 

TWoK Ch. 15 

 

 

Dalinar patted the large stallion on the neck, looking into those deep black eyes. The horse seemed ashamed. “It wasn’t your fault you threw me, Gallant,” Dalinar said in a soothing voice. “I’m just glad you weren’t harmed too badly.” He turned to a nearby groom. “Give him extra feed this evening, and two crispmelons.”
“Yes sir, Brightlord. But he won’t eat extra food. He never does if we try to give it to him.”
“He’ll eat it tonight,” Dalinar said, patting the Ryshadium’s neck again. “He only eats it when he feels he deserves it, son.”
The lad seemed confused. Like most of them, he thought of Ryshadium as just another breed of horse. A man couldn’t really understand until he’d had one accept him as rider. It was like wearing Shardplate, an experience that was completely indescribable.

 

TWoK Ch. 18

 

If there were only some way to tame more Ryshadium….”
“I think you’ll sooner tame the highstorms, Brightness.

 

 

This led me to the question in my OP.

 

[hoser he/him]

Quote

2) Are there non-human races on Roshar, or non-humanoid races that are sentient?

The Parshendi are not human, but you probably already knew that. The two races of Aimaians are not human either. There are many races of sentient spren. From there, it depends if you call something like Ryshadium sentient or not.

 

 

This quote seems relevant.  I think the Ryshadium are part of Honor's investment.  Because the magical knights need awesome magical horses.  So my upvote for PM was partly for the humor, but I basically believe it.  The things Gallant does basically make him more intelligent than a person and apparently he can read Dalinar's mind. 

[Voidus]

I thought everyone knew, Ryshadium are Awesomespren, Gallant is just attracted to Dalinar's epic-ness
Yeah there's probably something going on with some Investiture from Honor, Investiture definitely seems like it could give enhanced sentience to animals.

[Shivertongue he/him]

Or they could just be more intelligent...

[hoser he/him]

Or they could just be more intelligent...

Because it's a sign of intelligence for untameable animals to choose people to ride them into battle or store in stables ...

[Morsk he/him]

Gallant only eating when he feels he deserves it sounds a lot like Honor's intent, so I do think there's something magical about these horses.

Maybe Szeth used Hemallury on a Ryshadium to get his Windrunning. Um never mind. What I meant to say is that greatshells are native to Roshar and evolved for symbiosis with spren. Humans are alien to Roshar, and only rarely does one bond with a spren, but it's at least possible. The Ryshadium could be on an evolutionary path somewhere in between, originally alien, but adapting towards Roshar and bonding with spren more freely than humans.

[hoser he/him]

Maybe Szeth used Hemallury on a Ryshadium to get his Windrunning.

Horses using lashings!  Whoo-hoo! Flying horses without wings! Sign me up!

[Arondell]

I have a vague recollection of Mr. Sanderson remarking about the number of intelligent races on Roshar other then humans.  I can't recall the exact quote but the remark included something to the effect that Ryshadium could arguably be considered an intelligent race.  Unfortunately I can't recall precisely where I read it so can't provide a link. 

[darkanimereal1]

I have a vague recollection of Mr. Sanderson remarking about the number of intelligent races on Roshar other then humans.  I can't recall the exact quote but the remark included something to the effect that Ryshadium could arguably be considered an intelligent race.  Unfortunately I can't recall precisely where I read it so can't provide a link. 

 

 

That's what Hoser posted about above: 

This quote seems relevant.  I think the Ryshadium are part of Honor's investment.  Because the magical knights need awesome magical horses.  So my upvote for PM was partly for the humor, but I basically believe it.  The things Gallant does basically make him more intelligent than a person and apparently he can read Dalinar's mind. 

 

Quote

Quote

2) Are there non-human races on Roshar, or non-humanoid races that are sentient?

The Parshendi are not human, but you probably already knew that. The two races of Aimaians are not human either. There are many races of sentient spren. From there, it depends if you call something like Ryshadium sentient or not.

[Shivertongue he/him]

Because it's a sign of intelligence for untameable animals to choose people to ride them into battle or store in stables ...

 

You appear to be either misinterpreting what I meant by "intelligent," or misunderstanding what intelligence can mean. Intelligent in this case does not necessarily mean "smart," but rather "closer to sentience." Is it truly impossible to consider, in a fantasy world, that perhaps a specific breed of horse is more cognizant than others, perhaps to the point of having such concepts as honor and reward? They may not be able to speak or compose symphonies, but could it not be entirely possible that the Rhyshadium breed is simply more intelligent, perhaps on their way to sentience in several thousand years? There have been reports and articles of animals in our world who have some bizarre habits that make them seem almost human.

 

My point is it doesn't have to be have a magical reasoning. It could be fairly mundane. Not everything extraordinary has to be magical. 

[Vortaan he/him]

Maybe it's because I am a Thomas Covenant fan, but the Rhyshadium have never struck me as all that special. Roshar version of Ranyhyn and I'm good. Maybe there is something more there, though. Why do they choose their riders? Adolin and Dalinar make sense, but why not Elkohar? Did Gavilar have one?

[hoser he/him]

You appear to be either misinterpreting what I meant by "intelligent," or misunderstanding what intelligence can mean. Intelligent in this case does not necessarily mean "smart," but rather "closer to sentience." Is it truly impossible to consider, in a fantasy world, that perhaps a specific breed of horse is more cognizant than others, perhaps to the point of having such concepts as honor and reward? They may not be able to speak or compose symphonies, but could it not be entirely possible that the Rhyshadium breed is simply more intelligent, perhaps on their way to sentience in several thousand years? There have been reports and articles of animals in our world who have some bizarre habits that make them seem almost human.

 

My point is it doesn't have to be have a magical reasoning. It could be fairly mundane. Not everything extraordinary has to be magical. 

Ouch! My brain hurts.  I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.  I thought the smiley would remove the sting, but maybe I should have dragged out the <snarky sarcasm> tags. 

 

Seriously, though, the last paragraph is a reasonable restatement of your initial comment.  You lost me at misunderstanding or misinterpreting, though.  What evidence do you have to support your statement that I misunderstood or misinterpreted your comment?

 

I don't understand the first paragraph at all.  While intelligence is an overloaded term which has lesser meanings that depend on the anthropocentric assumption that intelligent creatures are more self aware, in general: intelligence =/= sentience.  If you use intelligence when you mean sentience, is it reasonable to accuse others of misunderstanding or misinterpreting you?

 

Talk of sentience is generally not meaningful, as we humans don't actually know how sentient any other creature is.  We assume that humans are more self-aware than other creatures, but I am not aware of any non-circular arguments in support. 

 

Apparently in your construct, intelligence is a step toward becoming sentient, and sentient beings can behave honorably and take things as rewards only when they deserve them.

 

So it sounds like we agree that untameable horses choosing to serve people by being ridden into battle and kept in stables is not intelligent. 

 

So you claim that it's possible Ryshadium naturally evolved to be attracted to serve only the most honorable people and accept rewards only when they "deserve" them. 

 

Sure, it's possible.  Anything is possible.  Occam's razor tells me that it is more likely due to magical involvement in a book about magic on the planet affected by "Honor". 

 

However, I will bet you a gif of a cookie, an upvote or a public apology for doubting your amazing sentient judgment that it turns out that Ryshadium are affected by a Shardic investment. 

Edited May 1, 2013 by hoser

[Shivertongue he/him]

Ouch! My brain hurts.  I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.  I thought the smiley would remove the sting, but maybe I should have dragged out the <snarky sarcasm> tags. 

 

Seriously, though, the last paragraph is a reasonable restatement of your initial comment.  You lost me at misunderstanding or misinterpreting, though.  What evidence do you have to support your statement that I misunderstood or misinterpreted your comment?

 

I don't understand the first paragraph at all.  While intelligence is an overloaded term which has lesser meanings that depend on the anthropocentric assumption that intelligent creatures are more self aware, in general: intelligence =/= sentience.  If you use intelligence when you mean sentience, is it reasonable to accuse others of misunderstanding or misinterpreting you?

 

Talk of sentience is generally not meaningful, as we humans don't actually know how sentient any other creature is.  We assume that humans are more self-aware than other creatures, but I am not aware of any non-circular reasoning in support. 

 

more later

 

That's what I get for posting whilst simultaneously doing visual research on coffee shop logos.... I are coherent.

 

For the record, I enjoy <snarky sarcasm> tags. Emoticons can be interpreted multiple ways.

 

Reading over that first paragraph in my previous post, I can easily see where someone could get lost; I admit that I did myself just now. Intelligence is not the same thing as sentience, no, but providing a strict dictionary definition is not beneficial to defining intelligence. Scientists, psychologists, philosophers, and other types of 'ists and 'ers over the centuries have made attempts to define it, and they can't seem to agree on a solid definition. Without opening that particular can of worms, the best way to phrase what I meant when I used the term, is "awareness". And by that, I mean that perhaps the Ryshadium are not as driven by factors of pure instinct (fight, flee, eat) and have some degree of understanding of the world around them.

 

In thinking about this, your use of the word "untameable" stuck out to me. It's interesting, the differences between the terms "tame" and "tameable" - the latter meaning that a wild animal can be trained to have specific responses to specific situations or stimuli, and the former being how much an animal tolerates the presence of humans, which can come about without any human influence. Ryshadium choosing their riders suggests that they are tame to some degree, but that they cannot be tamed. This suggests to me that they have a level of intelligence/awareness higher than that of your standard, instinct-driven animal.

 

I'm not denying the possibility that Ryshadium intelligence and rather unusual nature could be caused by magic. I'm just not currently seeing that as likely, as, in my eyes, the differences between them and your standard horse is explainable by purely mundane methods. And my initial post was part of my ongoing desire to see people not immediately attribute everything to magic. Think outside the box and consider the mundane.

 

Hopefully this post made more sense.

[hoser he/him]

That's what I get for posting whilst simultaneously doing visual research on coffee shop logos.... I are coherent.

 

For the record, I enjoy <snarky sarcasm> tags. Emoticons can be interpreted multiple ways.

 

Reading over that first paragraph in my previous post, I can easily see where someone could get lost; ...Hopefully this post made more sense.

Thanks for rereading your post with an open mind.  I will try to use my snarky sarcasm tags more often when I am being "clever". 

[Senor Feesh]

I for one am curious as to why Roshar even has horses, given that they'd be very poorly adapted to highstorms. Either they evolved in Shinovar, or they're not native to Roshar at all. That's my belief anyway.

[Elwynn]

I for one am curious as to why Roshar even has horses, given that they'd be very poorly adapted to highstorms. Either they evolved in Shinovar, or they're not native to Roshar at all. That's my belief anyway.

 

We actually had WoB that horses are indeed not native to Roshar.

[Vortaan he/him]

I for one am curious as to why Roshar even has horses, given that they'd be very poorly adapted to highstorms. Either they evolved in Shinovar, or they're not native to Roshar at all. That's my belief anyway.

 

Maybe Ryshadium are the beginnings of horses adapting to Roshar. They are stronger and faster, do they perhaps survive hightstorms better?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Nah, they're actually less adapted.  Most horses have lost muscle mass in the low gravity.

[Vortaan he/him]

Nah, they're actually less adapted.  Most horses have lost muscle mass in the low gravity.

 

Why is there lower gravity on Roshar? And lower compared to where?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Why is there lower gravity on Roshar? And lower compared to where?

Roshar's got a surface gravity of 0.7 g.  Presumably it's a smaller or less dense planet that Earth, or any of the other shardworlds we've seen.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Voidus]

Roshar's got a surface gravity of 0.7 g.  Presumably it's a smaller or less dense planet that Earth, or any of the other shardworlds we've seen.

Which explains how Greatshells can exist there and how Parshendi can chasm leap.

[Meg]

I'm sorry I left you alone on this <snarky sarcasm>important</snarky sarcasm> topic. I'm grateful for your replies and have learned quite a bit too. 

 

Though I see, that not everything has to have a magical background, I've got the idea that Ryshadiums may be bound/tied to a sort of cultivation-spren that makes them to something more than normal horses.

 

It's not only that they feel the needs of their chosen riders but they, too, re-act to that impressions and behave more attentive than normal horses. 

 

Unfortunately we don't know whether the other few people that ride Ryshadiums are Shardbearers like Dalinar and Adolin but given that Ryshadiums are bigger and stronger:

 

 

Dalinar grabbed the reins and heaved himself into the air with Plate-enhanced legs, jumping up into the saddle. The force of his landing might have strained the back of a regular horse, but Gallant was made of stronger stone than that.

TWoK Ch. 13 

 

Thus they are better suited for bearing a Shardbearer. 

 

As for were the horses on Roshar came from: I think they were cast out of the Tranquiline Halls together with mankind. 

 

[happyman he/him]

I also suspect that horses came with humans to Roshar.  They stick out like a sore thumb among all the weirdness that is Roshar flora and fauna.  This goes for chickens as well.

Either that, or something very strange happened in Shinovar, where these animals can live naturally.