Thory: Origin of Shardplates & blades

[afdp he/him]

After re-reading TWoK, I'd like to propose the following theory on the origin of Shardplates and shardblades. During Dalinar's vision, it is shown that the world wasn't very advanced when de shard* were created. It is specifically noted that there are no fabrials at all, and it seems that there is not enough metalurgical technology to build someting like the shard*.

 

My theory: shardplate and blade is not build. Is is a consequence of the Nahel bond, on swearing the fifth oath. Moreover, I would propose that the shard* is the linked spren, acquiring a physical form. This would be in line with how the original shardplate appeared and disappeared almost at will (shown during the visions) of its wielder.

 

Moreover, this is also suggested by several scenes we are shown: the effect of Dalinar jumping down with his shardplate is very similar to when Kaladin jumps down while light-infused, also we have a couple of scenes where Syl was "protecting" Kaladin.

 

This would also explain (or be foreshadowed?) by Kaladin's reluctance to take the shards when fighting for Alamar... those are not *his* true shards, and in fact, as they were abandoned by the original wielders, they probably have lost not only some of their powers, but the connection with the ideals and spren that gave rise to them.

 

Another note: we have that fabrials are built by somehow "trapping" a spren into them. If the shards are built according to this theory, they already have a built-in spren...

 

What do you think? Might this work?

[Binnut he/him]

Sounds very good to me!

 

The only thing i can think of is that the shardblade and shardplate are a result of the bond, why would there be a way to give it to someone else?

[darkanimereal1]

Interesting theory!

 

Sounds very good to me!

 

The only thing i can think of is that the shardblade and shardplate are a result of the bond, why would there be a way to give it to someone else?

 

Well, there's a few things we don't know that could help explain this. What happens to an honor spren if the KR it bonded with dies? We know that if a person dies, their Shardblade will stick around because the victor picks it up. Maybe they didn't use to pass blades/plate on--maybe they were buried with the body OR maybe there was a way to release the spren from the bond. But when the KR abandoned their blades on the Day of Recreance, they did something that no one before had done--left their blade for someone else to use. That could explain Brandon's quote/answer saying that there's "something missing" from the current blades/plate: it's probably a connection between the bond and the current holder.

Hmm, I started out just thinking this was an interesting idea, but the more I think on it, the more I think it's fairly plausible.

[Colateralwar]

Interesting theory!

 

 

Well, there's a few things we don't know that could help explain this. What happens to an honor spren if the KR it bonded with dies? We know that if a person dies, their Shardblade will stick around because the victor picks it up. Maybe they didn't use to pass blades/plate on--maybe they were buried with the body OR maybe there was a way to release the spren from the bond. But when the KR abandoned their blades on the Day of Recreance, they did something that no one before had done--left their blade for someone else to use. That could explain Brandon's quote/answer saying that there's "something missing" from the current blades/plate: it's probably a connection between the bond and the current holder.

Hmm, I started out just thinking this was an interesting idea, but the more I think on it, the more I think it's fairly plausible.

I love this theory, I think It is a great idea.

Also, during the visions, all of the Knights Radiant's Shardblades and plate are glowing in a way that they no longer do. During the vision of the day of Recreance, Dalinar sees the shards loose this glow when they are abandoned by the Radiants. If this theory holds, then maybe the reason the shards lost their glow was because they were now separated from their bonded holder. 

 

In addition, during the scenes towards the end of The Way of Kings when Kaladin is fighting off the Parshendi, Syl takes on a very similar glow as she flies around him. I very much doubt that is not important. And Nohadon mentions that the Radiants were made up of individuals bound to spren other than Honorspren. I think that, if this theory is correct, then perhaps Death Spren were the spren responsible for the Blades. 

[afdp he/him]

An additional detail: Dalinar is renouncing his shards (sword went to Sadeas, plate is said to be given to Renarin). This could be setting it up for Dalinar to get his own "true" shardplate & sword (if/when he pronounces the oaths and binds a Spren)... this could help when Szeth comes after him in the next book...

 

[Binnut he/him]

Interesting theory!

 

 

Well, there's a few things we don't know that could help explain this. What happens to an honor spren if the KR it bonded with dies? We know that if a person dies, their Shardblade will stick around because the victor picks it up. Maybe they didn't use to pass blades/plate on--maybe they were buried with the body OR maybe there was a way to release the spren from the bond. But when the KR abandoned their blades on the Day of Recreance, they did something that no one before had done--left their blade for someone else to use. That could explain Brandon's quote/answer saying that there's "something missing" from the current blades/plate: it's probably a connection between the bond and the current holder.

Hmm, I started out just thinking this was an interesting idea, but the more I think on it, the more I think it's fairly plausible.

 

Mabye Syl's dislike of the current blade and plate has something to do with that they are a result and representation of a broken bond and a willingly broken oath.

 

Edit:

I have seen a theory somewhat similar to this one about the plate and blade being magically "given" at a certain oath. That thread also suggested that the 10 heartbeats were corresponding to different parts of the plate. There are if I remember correctly 10 named parts of tne plate. Mabye you can summon boots on first heartbeat and "legs" at second and so on with helmet as 9:th and at last Blade.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Binnut

[Gloom he/him]

Mabye Syl's dislike of the current blade and plate has something to do with that they are a result and representation of a broken bond and a willingly broken oath.

 

Now, this makes a lot of sense to me. Sylphrena is an honorspren. She is the embodiment of oaths, promises, and nobility. She said so of her own accord at a point in the story where I consider her to be a reliable narrator. She binds things. The Shards represent the shattering of an oath. The fall of nobility. The breaking of promises. In other words, to her, the Shards may represent the opposite of everything she stands for. This would explain why she hates them.

 

It could be even worse. We haven't seen the rise of a Knight Radiant in thousands of years. We don't know why, but if the spren actually became the Shards as postulated above, then they may have lost their connection to them, became paralyses so to speak, they would still be trapped within those Shards, but would be unable to influence the actions of their wielders. This would make Shards prisons for bondingspren, trapping them, and preventing them from seeking out new Knight Radiant candidates to replace those who betrayed their oaths. This may even be a tortuous existence for the spren when the Shards fall into the hands of the honorless.

 

If this is the case, then there must have been a way to sever the bond and free the spren to choose a new candidate. If not, Sylphrena, and quite possibly the cryptics, would still be locked in Shards.

[Crysanja]

so the knight radiant had "relationships" with honor spren - but they threw away their plates/swords with "traped" friends?

sounds wrong.

 

 

i would like to say again, shardplate and sword are very different, one seems indestructable, the other can be grown back from parts, but take easly damage,

[Gloom he/him]

so the knight radiant had "relationships" with honor spren - but they threw away their plates/swords with "traped" friends?

sounds wrong.

 

 

i would like to say again, shardplate and sword are very different, one seems indestructable, the other can be grown back from parts, but take easly damage,

 

This would make it a betrayal, yes? It sounds wrong? It very well could be, but remember, their are hints in the book that suggested that all was not well with the Knights Radiant leading up to the Recreance. This could have just been peoples perception of things, but it could also have been foreshadowing. There are various reasons why the Knights Radiant may have discarded their 'friends'. Perhaps their 'friends' asked them to do something that they couldn't countenance. So they decided as a group to discard their Shards and renounce their oaths. It could have been to destroy the Parsh, or even to destroy humanity, They may have told the Knights Radiant the truth about the Heralds. They may have asked them to hunt the Heralds down and bring them to justice. We don't know why yet, but we know that it was something big. Something that made over a thousand Knights renounce their oaths and disband their orders.

 

I agree that Shardblades may be indestructible, but I would never say that Shardplate is easily damaged. One Shardbearer felt perfectly comfortable riding through Amarams army alone. I have no doubt he fully expected to ride back out unharmed as well. Dalinar and Adolan stood at the front line of combat in a hopeless situation and fought the Parshendi for an extended period of time against forces that hit almost as hard as someone with Shardplate enhanced strength and still lived to walk away. Shardplate is certainly more durable than steel. Kaladin made certain to aim his spear at a crack in the Parshendi Shardbearers armor, and even while he was surgebinding he had to hit it twice. Steel is very good armor, it was the best we were ever able to come up with. Shardplate is better, much better. No, it isn't indestructible, but it certainly isn't easily damaged.

[jefftucker0525]

Im pretty sure i remember something being said about 2 spren being "attached" to each of the orders of the KR, but i could be wrong, if so wouldnt it make sense that each order has a slightly different skill set, and its possible that an undiscovered spren couls cause the making of the shardspear i keep hearing about?

 

Im just saying all this because i have seen repeated posts of honor spren being the ones who create the bond, when in reality there are multiple spren who can, such as Shallan's spren.

 

Just sayin.

[Shardlet he/him]

It is actually each order of the KR is based on two surges not spren.  For example Kaladin has the complete set of Windrunner surgebinding capabilities (i.e., the three lashings, though not at full strength as he has only reached the second ideal) which are sourced in the gravitation and pressure surges.  However, he is only bonded to a single spren. 

 

But, in the storm-vision, Nohadon seems to indicate that spren other than honorspren can participate in the formation of Nahel bonds.  Whether honorspren are particularly coupled to Windrunners or not is unclear.  It is also unclear as to whether the cryptics are forming a Nahel bond with Shallan.  But, it seems clear that there are more Nahel bonding spren than just honorspren.

[blackmagic3 he/him]

I was just thinking about the two surges associated with each radiant order and by extension the respective spren. I remember brandon saying something about some spren being of both Honor and Cultivation. What if one surge came from honor and the other from cultivation or both from either Honor or Cultivation depending on the composition of the spren in regards to being either of honor, cultivation or both.

[Miyabi he/him]

I really like this theory and I'm going to expand on the "two Spren" part.

Isn't it said that everyone has two qualities? Whether it be something like 'intelligence and artisticness' or 'honor and devotion.' This could provide a way for two Spren to bond to a single person. One of which would become the KR's Plate whilst the other became their Blade. It appears, by the way she acts, that Syl will eventually become a set of Plate for Kaladin.

Perhaps we will similar properties to the pre-Recreance Plate and Blade. Perhaps Syl will be able to still be herself except when she wants to become Plate for Kaladin, but then is stuck as a set of Plate until he releases her.

This could allow for her to instantly become Plate, because it's of her own will. Perhaps the ten heartbeats that are common now to the summoning of Blades are a punishment, the only way a Spren can fight back. They make them wait ten heartbeats, one for each of the abandoned ideal, and perhaps one for each broken promise (the promise part I'm pulling out of my butt, because I couldn't think of 5 more things for heartbeats to represent.) Or perhaps 5 for each of the ideals each of the two Spren stood for since the Plate seems to always be corporeal and not vanish like the Plate does, so the Blade Spren takes out both of their frustrations on the Bearer?

I like the idea that the Recreance was due to the fact that the Spren informed the KR that the Oathpact had been broken. This could cause a LOT of anger among a large number of the KR, and so they broke their Oaths to the rest of the world, leaving their trapped Spren saying, "You do it, we're done."

Is there any place where in one of Dalinar's visions a KR dies and his Plate and Blade stay corporeal? Or is that just in modern times? Perhaps this intentional entrapment of the old Spren is why Syl hates them so much. They are prisons for her friends who had been trapped by the Order who abandoned them.

Perhaps there is a way to release the current Spren from their Plate and Blades? Perhaps not. If anyone figures it out though it would be Jasnah.

I feel like Spren trapped within the Blades could have inspired early research into Fabrial sciences.

I'm rambling now....

[Mailon]

I came to the same conclusion reading the book, I hope it's right.

[Gloom he/him]

We don't have a single reference to a Knight Radiant existing post Recreance. We know they all had bonding spren, so where did the spren go? The idea that almost all of the bonding spren are imprisoned in existing Shards is certainly plausible with the information we currently have. Those bonding spren not imprisoned, such as Syl and the Cryptics, may have been freed through the complete destruction of Plate, or they may have been awaiting a new bondholder.

 

Now, based on Syl's reactions and the impermanence of Plate, it could also be speculated that the Blade is the part invested with a spren, and the Plate is a secondary result. On the Day of Recreance, the KR all drove their Blades into the stone prior to removing their Plate. This may have more significance than we suspect. The screaming may have been the spren lamenting the sudden separation from their KR. It could have also had something to do with the act of driving a Shardblade into stone as the Heralds did with their Honorblades when they abandoned their own oaths.

[Crysanja]

maybe spren are only interrested for bounds when the desolation is near/started.

 

we dont know of any way to destroy a shard-plate/blade.

 

shardplate can be deformed and hacked into pices, but regrown from anypart.

but it seems to be one entitiy, you can only grow one plate with the pices, not as many as there are pices.

 

maybe the passage about regrowing shardplate could give a small insight, if there are spren used for the plate.