AlluminumMisting Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 It is rather counter-intuitive, because the power never truly "belongs" to the person, it is stored in the spike and can be removed or passed to someone else at will. However, it seems like there are koloss half-breeds that inherit some of the artificial traits. Does this mean that all hemallurgic traits can be permanently passed from parent to child? Could an inquisitor pass allomancy/hemallurgy to their children? And what about kandra? We have never heard of them actually reproducing, they made new generations of their race out of wild mistwraiths, but technically they should be able to. Do mistwraith reproduce via some asexual method the kandra find distasteful to perform themselves? Can't they form genitals and reproduce sexually (even with each other, I'm not sure they are still genetically compatible with humans)? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Sazed changed how some of the hemalurgic monsters were so that they can breed now but it wasn't previously a part of Koloss biology. As for Inquisitors I believe we have WoB somewhere that they can reproduce and that their children would be more likely to be allomancers.EDIT: Quote ZAS678 (REDDIT.COM)You've said that Inquisitors could have children. Would those children have a better chance at being Allomancers compared to if they had the kids before they were Inquisitors? BRANDON SANDERSONYes, but there also could be...complications. Edited June 30, 2015 by Voidus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Mistwraith reproduction has nothing to do with hemalurgy. Why bring it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlluminumMisting Posted June 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Mistwraith reproduction has nothing to do with hemalurgy. Why bring it up? Reproduction in general has everything to do with whether or not hemallurgy (or literally anything else) is hereditary. Kandras are mistwraiths, so their reproduction is tangentially relevant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 But they're created from existing mistwraiths, which themselves are hemalurgically unaltered animals. We have no reason to believe the kandra actually needed to reproduce at all. The mistwraiths probably do, but hemalurgy doesn't factor into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlluminumMisting Posted June 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 But they're created from existing mistwraiths, which themselves are hemalurgically unaltered animals. We have no reason to believe the kandra actually needed to reproduce at all. The mistwraiths probably do, but hemalurgy doesn't factor into that. I never said they need to reproduce, neither do inquisitors, but that is not the topic. The topic is whether or not offspring of a hemallurgically altered organism inherit the boost from hemallurgy. Thus, the hypothetical scenario of kandra reproduction is relevant even if they in practice only "reproduce" by spiking wild mistwraiths. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecohansen Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 By the way, Aluminum, welcome! Magnificent question, and I wish I had relevant input. Have some welcome-upvotes instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 We don't know if Kandra can mate anymore though. The entire system got redone just to make koloss fertile, even though they are human. Kandra mostly seem the same as mistwraiths but then again they just look like translucent . . . stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Welcome to the fora! Also, love your debate style. There is some debate as to whether or not the koloss cross-breed with humans, but on balance I think it is the most likely scenario. That I know of, WoB is inconclusive. Obviously we have Tarson who has both koloss-blood and allomantic pewter, but since koloss used to be made out of humans, maybe there were already allomantic genes within them. Looking at the text of the quote, the children of Inquisitors would have... complications. This suggests, to me, that hemalurgy must somehow affect reproduction. Now, it might be a simply matter of the physiological changes. Koloss are changed from viable humans to non-viable koloss, in a manner that shouldn't have a direct impact on their reproductive organs. The mistwraith, with their 50-year lifespans, are turned into kandra with negligible senescence. We have absolutely no idea if they retain the ability (or urge) to reproduce. Again, getting a pair of spikes used to kill people and grant you the ability to remain calm does not logically extend to an infinite lifespan, so something else is happening here. So, to answer your question, we don't know. A follow-up to Mr. Sanderson might be in order. It could be that the child's spiritweb will inherit some of the mutations to the parent's spiritweb, or even that the scrap of spiritweb stuck in the spike itself will affect the child. Or it could literally just be that the body of the parent has been physically changed so much by bleedthrough from the spiritual realm that there will be purely physical complications. If someone has further W's-o-B or other conclusions that might be drawn, I for one am all ears. Excellent question, Aluminum! Also interesting name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccstat he/him Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) There was a question on this during the Words of Radiance signing, but there is no transcript, so the WoB is paraphrased. This is taken from the Koloss page on the Coppermind. When two koloss reproduce, the child is born koloss-blooded. They become a full koloss once they accept the spikes. Apparently this was already hinted at in an interview Brandon did for the AoL MAG supplement. Weiry's interpretation of Kandra at that link is helpful too, and might inform this discussion. Mistwraiths are essentially people who have a blockage between their cognitive and physical aspects, the spikes help to clear that blockage. The spikes don't so much "give them sentience" as allow them to manifest their inherent sentience. The original WoB about Kandra post-WoA (which has since been superseded by the AoL-era books and associated quotes) is here. Edited June 30, 2015 by ccstat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlluminumMisting Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Thank you. So, basically, koloss are no longer made from ordinary humans, but rather are some new race that has some minor resemblances to koloss, like continuing to grow and being stronger than normal people, but more importantly, can take the koloss spikes without completely losing their mind? Interseting, though it makes it near-impossible to determine which traits are inherent to this race and which come from hemallurgy. Kandras aren't going to give us any example of what their children would look like, so that leaves us with inquisitors, whose children were confirmed to be more likely to be allomancers. I'm inclined to go with Oudeis's explanation; it probably has nothing to do with conventional genetics and is related to this spirit world stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 They were already showing signs of intelligence by HoA, tbh. The loss of the main spike source (TLR) would've meant more spike recycling, and by extension more decay. The spikes themselves might have weakened substantially over time, on top of whatever Sazed did to them. The reproduction thing is definitely new for them though, but they still only produce grey(?)-skinned tougher humans. Koloss spikes are still necessary to mutate them into full Koloss with the skin and junk. The koloss-blood features in the children might be from the alterations or the spikes like inquisitors potentially passing their grafted allomantic sDNA. Spiritual magic GMOs are an amusing topic, I'll admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colours Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I figure we can consider koloss and Inquisitors to be subspecies of humans, so interbreeding would be possible and the child would be born with mostly-human traits. I'm really curious about how an Inquisitor's offspring might turn out. Does anyone have any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Well from how i understand it you have DNA(normal human) CDNA(Cognative stuff no idea how that works) SDNA(Spiritual DNA). Each of these affect how a person looks and interacts with the world. Sdna is kind of like a base template for a creature almost an idea human blank with modifiers with things like Metal born and detachable breath and such. Hemalurgy changes that basic template and small parts of that template transfer over to the child but at a reduced scale than normal DNA hence why koloss have children with a blue or gray tint to them instead of breeding true. I would imagine that the more altered a persons SDNA the more likely the chance for Genetic flaws in the SDNA to appear. the Kendra are in a different category on account of mistwraiths not being a hemalurgic entity so mistwraiths can possibly breed true. Although its possible they do not breed at all and all mistwraiths are just the original feruchemists I do not think this is the case. i found this to be interesting and slightly relevant http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=428#80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 All of this makes me wish I could draw... I want to make an artist's rendering of a Koloss spiritweb. Most of it would be one big mass of blue lines, like a three dimensional spiderweb made of light, with small patterns within the greater mass, and a few big cables leading out of the mass to connect it to other things. At some intersections, there would be quirks, like color changes, yellows, greens, purples, odd places where the lines curve in ways they shouldn't. But then, at four points, there'd be a sharp, angry spike of red, glowing brightly with light. These short, straight lines will connect the spiritweb to a single, red/orange patter, the pattern replicated for each spike. However, outside of the pattern for each of them will be unique fractions of patterns, some red, some hits of blue, much of it black and withered. Within the main mass of the spiritweb, the same pattern will be found in one place. This place will also be red-orange, connected to the four spikes by red/orange lines. Various bits of the spiritweb around all the red/orange will be warped and disfigured, pushed out of the way, occasionally broken and torn. I suppose this would have the most impact if I actually drew a non-modified spiritweb, first. Too bad I can't draw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulcastJam he/him Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Come on Oudeis. Give us a try... I'm really looking forward to the stick figure with lines all over. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I honestly wouldn't be able to begin. I cannot draw something in two dimensions, trying for a 3D model is just not happening. What might also be interesting would be to draw a Savant... mostly a normal spiritweb, but one portion of it would be golden and engorged, with a thick cable leading off-panel. Let's go with tin. The threads of this one would be much, much larger, pushing aside nearby bits of spiritweb. Thick golden connections would also snake down into other bits of the spiritweb, connecting to five other small, internal patterns that all share a basic underlying similarity to the huge one; each of these are also over-sized, though none of them have the same golden glow as the huge pattern. Around each warped pattern, nothing has turned red or orange, but connections are broken, patterns are bent, and in some few places the blue threads turn black and withered, snapped off into dead-ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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