Adamir he/him Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Regardless of the practitioner's skill, there will always be a brief moment after the spike has pierced its victim before it transfers anything. Investiture will inevitably leak from the spike during this period; thus, a Hemalurgic Transference will always lose power when attempted. This is the Law of Hemalurgic Decay. If we follow that thread of logic, we can assume that a spike becomes completely useless if left out in the open for long enough. We have evidence; we have Word of Brandon*, we have Sazed's statements, we have everything except actual proof that Hemalurgic decay can weaken Hemalurgic constructs. Allow me to give you my evidence. The earring she put in her ear - it was a very simple thing. Little more than a stud, not even worth stealing, which was why she didn't fear leaving it in the back room. Still, Vin had rarely worn it, for fear that the ornamentation would make her look more feminine. The Final Empire, Chapter 3 Of course, we don't know what she means by 'rarely', but it is safe to assume that it means the earring was only piercing flesh one third of the time, most likely a lot less. And yet the earring still works. With the earring, Vin is able to puncture copperclouds, "I punctured Shan's coppercloud to locate her and the other assassins." - The Final Empire, Chapter 31 hear the Well of Ascension long before it fills, For a moment, she thought she felt something. Something very strange - a slow pulsing, like a distant drum, unlike any Allomantic rhythm she'd felt before. But it wasn't coming from Kelsier. It felt... far away. She focused harder, trying to pick out the direction it was coming from. - The Final Empire, Chapter 31 hear the voice of Ruin even before he is freed, In her mind, she thought she heard a voice whispering to her. Reen's voice. 'Fool! Ruthlessness - it's the most logical of emotions. You don't have any friends in the underworld. You'll never have any friends in the underworld!' - The Final Empire, Chapter 3 and most importantly, repel mist. 'That's it,' she thought in a surreal moment, watching the mists on the ground before her, creeping through the shattered window wall, flowing across the floor. Oddly, they didn't curl around her as they usually did - as if something were pushing them away. - The Final Empire, Chapter 38 What does the last extract tell us? First, we need to look at the specific wording. They didn't curl around her as they usually did. The implication here is that the earring is rarely worn, even after Kelsier indoctrinates her into the Survivor's Crew. And the broader implication - the earring still holds enough of a Hemalurgic charge to push Preservation away. Sure, we could assume that any charge is enough to drive away the mists - perhaps the charge was like the last drop of water in a glass. The glass isn't dry, but neither can it nourish. Unless we go back to The Final Empire, Chapter 31. Here, Vin can clearly tell the difference between metals, with the coppercloud's only effect being to slightly dampen the rhythm. "Pewter! You're burning pewter..." "Tin. Now steel - you changed as soon as I spoke..." "You can feel Allomantic pulses through copper! They're quiet, but I guess you just have to focus hard enough to..." I am not claiming there is no such thing as Hemalurgic Decay. My own evidence against it reveals its existence; if Vin actually did have doubled bronze, the coppercloud wouldn't require as much focus as it did to break. No, instead I claim there to be a Second Law of Hemalurgic Decay. I believe the law to be, as follows; Each metal has a capacity that the typical Hemalurgic victim, such as a human impaled on a spike, overflows. Thus, just as an over-filled glass of water will leak, an over-charged spike will suffer Hemalurgic Decay. Just as with a metalmind, the size of the spike directly influences its storage capacity - thus a smaller spike will suffer greater Hemalurgic Decay before being reduced to its capacity compared to a larger spike. This is the Law of Hemalurgic Threshold. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I think it's due to Hemalurgic decay eventually shallowing out, I'm pretty sure it's exponential so it never quite reaches 0 it just gets pretty close, but that extra .1% is still enough to pierce copperclouds and any amount of extra Ruin would repel the Mists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I think it's due to Hemalurgic decay eventually shallowing out, I'm pretty sure it's exponential so it never quite reaches 0 it just gets pretty close, but that extra .1% is still enough to pierce copperclouds and any amount of extra Ruin would repel the Mists. I *think* the term you were looking for was "half-life". If that's the case, I absolutely agree. It also leads to the consequence that no Hemalurgic Spike should ever naturally run out of power if left undisturbed, unless Hemalurgy has a Quantum value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I *think* the term you were looking for was "half-life". If that's the case, I absolutely agree. It also leads to the consequence that no Hemalurgic Spike should ever naturally run out of power if left undisturbed, unless Hemalurgy has a Quantum value. It's the same kind of progression as a half-life decay, an inverse exponential function but half-life is a specific example of it, so kind of yes kind of no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Vin was also rather strong for a modern mistborn, not as strong as a lerasium mistborn but still above average, so that tiny bit left in the spike might indeed be enough. If only we knew if a lerasium mistborn/lerasium-made Seeker like Elend can pierce a modern-strength coppercloud. Or a weaker seeker with a similarly decayed spike. Then we can work out how strong that bottomed-out charge can be expected to be. A soother or rioter spike would make for great data too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulcastJam he/him Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 In HoA, a spike is kept out for 5 days and is described as not having enough charge to grant powers. Presumably, if Vin's were out for the same amount of time hers would also be near useless as far as granting extra power. I think the first spiking does something different from subsequent spikings. For example, the first spiking requires blood to touch the spike, but when Vin puts her earring back in she isn't exposing it to blood again. My theory is that the first time the spike is placed, the blood connects and seals the amount of allomantic potential in the spike so that it stops decaying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Ahem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulcastJam he/him Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Ah... I see Oudeis came to the same conclusion as me, albeit with more references and theory. =) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I would point out granting power is not the same as enhancing power i.e. vin can pierce copper clouds were wax does not get any power because his spike is below the Allomantic threshold for gaining new powers in theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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