Burning aluminum

[SwiftSteel]

How does burning aluminum work?  Does it burn away your metals without unleashing their effects, or does it burn away the ABILITY of the metal?

 

Also, if an aluminum twinborn were to ingest an aluminummind and then burn aluminum, what would happen to the aluminummind?

[dj26792]

It burns away the metal and potentially could be used to burn awsy other things in the body like poisons.

In answer to the 2nd part, if they burnt the store of determination (I think its determination) they would compound it, if they burnt the aluminium they would burn away the store.

[Voidus]

Brandon generally stays pretty well within the laws of thermodynamics, he just adds a few cheats so my guess would be that burning aluminum either just converts all allomantic metals into some other form of energy or else as you say just removes their connection to allomancy (I guess that would be severing the spiritual bond between metals and preservation but someone who's actually good with realmatics could definitely give a better answer) in terms of burning an aluminum mind if you burn the feruchemical store itself it would just compound as burning a feruchemical storage doesn't provide the allomantic effect. If you mean a different piece of aluminum then that's a matter of some debate but I think most people would say that it's possible the metalmind would also be changed/vaporised/made inert (whichever is the case)

[Khmauv]

So when compounding you don't burn the metal itself but the feruchemical storage only? Or do you burn the metal AND the feruchemical storage. If you burn both do you also have the effects of both or just the feruchemical effect? For example, if you burned gold storing health would you see your other possible lives and heal simultaneously?

[Galavantes]

So when compounding you don't burn the metal itself but the feruchemical storage only? Or do you burn the metal AND the feruchemical storage. If you burn both do you also have the effects of both or just the feruchemical effect? For example, if you burned gold storing health would you see your other possible lives and heal simultaneously?

The feruchemical charge overwrites the allomantic charge in the metal. A metalmind that has been entirely filled has zero allomantic properties. 

I'm NOT sure what happens if you burn a goldmind that has only ever been half filled. Or what happens if you burn an empty metalmind that was once totally filled.

Although we did see Miles burn some of his gold. And considering how obsessive he was with his metalminds it's safe to assume he's at some point totally filled all the gold he has with health. Perhaps eating a gold nugget that is half allomantic / half feruchemical would just give you two wells of power? And you could choose which to burn?

Edited April 22, 2013 by Galavantes?

[Khmauv]

Where do we learn that from? To my recollection, I have not read anything that suggests there is a limit to how much a metal mind can store. 

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Where do we learn that from? To my recollection, I have not read anything that suggests there is a limit to how much a metal mind can store.

Sazed mentions size is a factor - he can't store very much in his rings.

[Khmauv]

That's right, I had forgotten. Still, I think it would be interesting to have a tin twin born getting a compounded compounding effect. Store sight, then burn it gaining compounded sight + the increased senses of a tin eye.

[Voidus]

You could swallow some ordinary Tin in addition to the metalmind and do something like that, but generally it would be easier to just compound the attribute some more.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

You could swallow some ordinary Tin in addition to the metalmind and do something like that, but generally it would be easier to just compound the attribute some more.

Well, ordinary tin grants slightly different benefits - seeing through mists + extra feruchemical sight boosts is nice.

Also, hmm. I suppose you could also damp down other enhanced tin senses by storing them, so you could have normal hearing / touch / pain response / smell, but SUPER SUPER SUPER sight.

[happyman]

Well, ordinary tin grants slightly different benefits - seeing through mists + extra feruchemical sight boosts is nice.

Also, hmm. I suppose you could also damp down other enhanced tin senses by storing them, so you could have normal hearing / touch / pain response / smell, but SUPER SUPER SUPER sight.

 

Just when I think we've found the obvious synergy in the systems, something like this comes along.

Could you imagine Savant!Spook with the ability to selectively dull or enhance his senses at any time?

[dj26792]

I'd be interested to see a source for the feruchemical power overwriting the allomantic, I've never seen that and always assumed the opposite, a view I will admit is completely unfounded.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I'd be interested to see a source for the feruchemical power overwriting the allomantic, I've never seen that and always assumed the opposite, a view I will admit is completely unfounded.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=636

Compounding is where you are able to kind of draw in more power than you should with feruchemy. What’s going on there is you’re actually charging a piece of metal, and then you are burning that metal as a feruchemical charge. What is happening is that the feruchemical charge overwrites the allomantic charge, and so you actually fuel feruchemy with allomancy, is what you are doing. Then if you just get out another piece of metal and store it in, since you’re not drawing the power from yourself, you’re cheating the system, you’re short-circuiting the system a little bit. So you can actually use the power that usually fuels allomancy, to fuel feruchemy, which you can then store in a metalmind, and basically build up these huge reservoirs of it. So what’s going on there is… imagine there’s like, an imprint, a wavelength, so to speak. A beat for an allomantic thing, that when you burn a metal, it says “ok, this is what power we give.” When it’s got that charge, it changes that beat and says, “now we get this power.” And you access a set of feruchemical power. That’s why compounding is so powerful.

[dj26792]

Thanks that actually makes way more sense than my assumption.

[Senor Feesh]

So what’s going on there is… imagine there’s like, an imprint, a wavelength, so to speak. A beat for an allomantic thing

 

Oh my... forgot about this... off-topic (sorry) but this ties nicely in with the theory of Waveforms that's been recently suggested. I seem to remember something similar with the Dor (Aons filtering which 'wavelengths' of the Dor can push through into the Physical). I wonder if Waveforms aren't unique to Roshar, so much as they are magic interpreted differently across the Cosmere.

 

Back OT, I am also curious as to what happens to a metalmind allmonatically which is part-filled, or totally filled and later drained. There seems to be an almost contradictory thing going on here, as we know metals don't 'contain' allomantic power, they act as catalysts to allow access to Preservation's power source. So I wonder then what is the nature of the allomantic 'charge'? Is this a natural function of the metal's chemical makeup, or is the metal itself invested?

[Voidus]

Yeah I've always thought of it as the ripples through the cosmere's power of creation, kind of like gravity being represented by distortions in space-time, only in waves rather than a fixed distortion from a body, and the wavelengths all produce different effects, which is why most similar magic is pretty identical (Lightweaving would look pretty similar on Roshar, or on another planet I think was Brandons example) because it causes the same wavelength.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Oh my... forgot about this... off-topic (sorry) but this ties nicely in with the theory of Waveforms that's been recently suggested. I seem to remember something similar with the Dor (Aons filtering which 'wavelengths' of the Dor can push through into the Physical). I wonder if Waveforms aren't unique to Roshar, so much as they are magic interpreted differently across the Cosmere.

 

Back OT, I am also curious as to what happens to a metalmind allmonatically which is part-filled, or totally filled and later drained. There seems to be an almost contradictory thing going on here, as we know metals don't 'contain' allomantic power, they act as catalysts to allow access to Preservation's power source. So I wonder then what is the nature of the allomantic 'charge'? Is this a natural function of the metal's chemical makeup, or is the metal itself invested?

I probably should have posted the entire quote

Brandon Sanderson

Oooooh, ok. Hm. That one is so hard! Every time people ask me something like this... What have I never been asked that people should be asking, is basically what the question is? Something that the fans have just missed... They pick up on so much, that it’s hard... I do wonder if, you know… all the magic systems [in my books] are connected and work on some basic fundamental principles, and a lot of people haven’t been asking questions about this. One thing I did get a question on today, and I’ll just talk about this one... they didn’t ask the right question, but I nudged them the right way, is understanding that tie between Aondor [the magic system from Elantris] and allomancy [Mistborn’s magic system].

People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense.

-and then that thing about compounding I posted earlier-

[Senor Feesh]

So then, can we infer from this that using metal as ferruchemical storage rearranges the chemical makeup of the metal? I see no other way that the allomantic 'charge' mentioned earlier would be lost. Otherwise, if the effect is only temporary, maybe a filled metalmind blocks allomantic resonance until emptied again.

Ah, wait, no... Re-read the quote above... If you're fuelling ferruchemy with allomancy, then i guess a charged metalmind changes the resonance to give access to the stored attribute instead.

 

Edited for grammar

Edited April 28, 2013 by Senor Feesh

[Phantom Monstrosity]

So then, can we infer from this that using metal as ferruchemical storage rearranges the chemical makeup of the metal? I see no other way that the allomantic 'charge' mentioned earlier would be lost. Otherwise, if the effect is only temporary, maybe a filled metalmind blocks allomantic resonance until emptied again.

Ah, wait, no... Re-read the quote above... If you're fuelling ferruchemy with allomancy, then i guess a charged metalmind changes,the resonance to give access to the stored attribute instead

As I understand it, the chemical composition remains the same, it's just got an added bit that takes precedence.

Which makes overwriting atium really weird, since atium already has a spiritual addition that's making it magical.

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2979-new-hampshire-signing/

Me: So what's at the core of an atom of Atium? Ate-teum? Also how do you pronounce it? At-teum?

BS: Yes. And the matter is just normal matter, but it's wrapped in the spiritual. The Spiritual DNA [or something]

is what makes it magical. (note: he might've said slightly more about this but I didn't write it down and I don't remember. Sorry for not bringing a tape recorder :(/> )

[Khmauv]

Well, ordinary tin grants slightly different benefits - seeing through mists + extra feruchemical sight boosts is nice.

Also, hmm. I suppose you could also damp down other enhanced tin senses by storing them, so you could have normal hearing / touch / pain response / smell, but SUPER SUPER SUPER sight.

I REALLY like this. Selective superpower tin enhancement. Good call Phantom.