feruchemical speed.

[Sirscott13 he/him]

I was thinking back to when vin did her first pewter drag, and she stated that without the balance enhancement of pewter she would have stumbled on herself. 

 

If this is the case, how would a feruchemist tapping speed run faster then a Thug? They do not have any increased balance powers and yet they seem to be able to run as fast as they want. 

 

Also on this note (assuming you could run as fast as you want) would it not be more efficient to tap huge amounts of speed at once rather then a little bit over a long time. If you tapped enough speed to go 50mph and needed to travel 100miles. Tapping 200mph speed would get you there in half an hour where as tapping 50mph would get you there in 2 hours. It seems to me that the ration is the same however you look at it. You would still have to tap almost exactly as much so why not save some travel time?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I was thinking back to when vin did her first pewter drag, and she stated that without the balance enhancement of pewter she would have stumbled on herself. 

 

If this is the case, how would a feruchemist tapping speed run faster then a Thug? They do not have any increased balance powers and yet they seem to be able to run as fast as they want. 

 

Also on this note (assuming you could run as fast as you want) would it not be more efficient to tap huge amounts of speed at once rather then a little bit over a long time. If you tapped enough speed to go 50mph and needed to travel 100miles. Tapping 200mph speed would get you there in half an hour where as tapping 50mph would get you there in 2 hours. It seems to me that the ration is the same however you look at it. You would still have to tap almost exactly as much so why not save some travel time?

Tapping larger amounts for shorter times are less efficient overall, if Health is any indication. Tapping a ton of health all at once doesn't heal as much as tapping a little for a long time.

[NewbSombrero he/him]

I do believe there is WoB indicating a diseconomies of scale for tapping.

[Sirscott13 he/him]

I understand why health would be that way, because you use up way more energy and can heal things beyond the normal capacity of natural health. speed however is very mathematical similar to weight. 

[Kurkistan he/him]

It's not just health that suffers from "surging" disproportionate amounts: it's every feruchemical attribute. You waste energy "compounding" (Brandon's confusing word choice, not mine) the extra ferucemical energy you draw on.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I understand why health would be that way, because you use up way more energy and can heal things beyond the normal capacity of natural health. speed however is very mathematical similar to weight.

Well, it isn't /exactly/ speed. I mean, if you're on a train you don't suddenly slow down and fall out the back, right?

[Kurkistan he/him]

^I don't have the books on me, but I believe that Sazed thought it akin to moving through molasses or something when he was storing, though I don't recall us seeing him actually tap speed. So yes, more like quick vs. sluggish movements than absolute velocity.

[Vortaan he/him]

To the topic at hand, all Feruchemical abilities seem to shield you somewhat from the overloads of their effects. Pewter makes your bones stronger to handle the increased muscle mass, your body gets somewhat stronger to bear increased weight from iron, etc. It's not out of the realm of possiblity that steel increases your balance enough to deal with the increased speed.

 

I wonder if you are able to think at the same speed you can move, though. The two times we get a Sazed PoV when he taps speed, he does seem to think quickly... but against Marsh he was tapping zinc too, I thought.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

To the topic at hand, all Feruchemical abilities seem to shield you somewhat from the overloads of their effects. Pewter makes your bones stronger to handle the increased muscle mass, your body gets somewhat stronger to bear increased weight from iron, etc. It's not out of the realm of possiblity that steel increases your balance enough to deal with the increased speed.

 

I wonder if you are able to think at the same speed you can move, though. The two times we get a Sazed PoV when he taps speed, he does seem to think quickly... but against Marsh he was tapping zinc too, I thought.

I might as well toss in the AMA quote about max speed.

 

 

1) How fast could a steel/steel Twinborn move?

Brandon:

1) You'd hit physical limits eventually. While the Metallurgic arts generally enhanced the body to deal with the powers granted, things like air resistance would hold you back--perhaps even kill you--if you weren't careful.

Looks like it includes balance as well, if the limiting factor is air resistance.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Observer]

Hehe, that's how they kill themselves with style. They shoot forward at 9000MPH and turn into swiss cheese

[Sirscott13 he/him]

I wonder if you tapped enough strength pewter/pewter compounder there would be a limit to how big you would grow

[Satsuoni he/him]

I wonder if you tapped enough strength pewter/pewter compounder there would be a limit to how big you would grow

 

Well, yes. At the very least, you'll hit basic physical barrier of becoming a black hole at certain size (works for any density). Long before that, you'll crush yourself. Even longer before that you won't be able to move effectively because of your bulk (Sazed commented on that when he was wrestling with Koloss). There may also be a moment when even Feruchemical shielding won't be enough for your bones and heart to hold. Etc...

 

As for the speed: Sazed was tapping Steel and Zinc. Then he ran out of steel, so he could enjoy slow-motion attack:

He tapped zinc again, speeding up his thoughts, but that didn’t help his body move. He could only watch—more fully aware of his predicament and unable to do a thing to stop it—as Marsh picked up the fallen lamp.

So at certain speed, you won't be able to react to the wall before you.

[kroen]

Dude, black hole, really? First of all, an object has to compress in order to become a black hole, not expand. Also, have you any idea what magnitudes are we talking about? For out Earth to become a black hole, for example, it would have to be compressed to the size of a grain of sand.

 

Also, Sazed had trouble moving while tapping pewter because he wasn't burning it. Burning pewter increases your speed and agility.

[Voidus]

Dude, black hole, really? First of all, an object has to compress in order to become a black hole, not expand. Also, have you any idea what magnitudes are we talking about? For out Earth to become a black hole, for example, it would have to be compressed to the size of a grain of sand.

 

Also, Sazed had trouble moving while tapping pewter because he wasn't burning it. Burning pewter increases your speed and agility.

If you read the question they were talking about tapping pewter, not burning it, and speed and agility from allomantic pewter are fixed quantities, they don't scale with your own physical capabilities (That's why Vin can still beat up plenty of thugs pewter v pewter) so you'll still hit a physical limit.

[Vortaan he/him]

s for the speed: Sazed was tapping Steel and Zinc. Then he ran out of steel, so he could enjoy slow-motion attack:

So at certain speed, you won't be able to react to the wall before you.

 

That makes his run to Luthadel more impressive, since he doesn't comment on using up a zincmind on the way. A random cow in the road could have made things a little difficult

[Satsuoni he/him]

That makes his run to Luthadel more impressive, since he doesn't comment on using up a zincmind on the way. A random cow in the road could have made things a little difficult

Well, I am pretty sure he was running at the speed of the car or so, still well within human reaction capability, as any driver can attest. What would have happened if he stumbled, however, is a good question. It is when you go above that when problems such as air resistance start to manifest. IIRC, the time for processing visual stimuli is about 0.1-0.2 sec for average human, and then the speed of movement can probably take over. I might be wrong, it has been a while...

 

Dude, black hole, really? First of all, an object has to compress in order to become a black hole, not expand. Also, have you any idea what magnitudes are we talking about? For out Earth to become a black hole, for example, it would have to be compressed to the size of a grain of sand.

Schwarzschild radius of Earth is 9mm, assuming the same mass. As the volume of Feruchemist tapping pewter increases, I am assuming the mass does too, though not as much as in case of weight tapping. Any object of the constant density will collapse into black hole upon reaching critical size, since mass grows proportionally to the cube of the radius... Anyway, read the wiki, if you want to know more. It is irrelevant, anyway, since you'd hit all other limits (and probably die) long before that.

[Voidus]

Well, I am pretty sure he was running at the speed of the car or so, still well within human reaction capability, as any driver can attest. What would have happened if he stumbled, however, is a good question. It is when you go above that when problems such as air resistance start to manifest. IIRC, the time for processing visual stimuli is about 0.1-0.2 sec for average human, and then the speed of movement can probably take over. I might be wrong, it has been a while...

You might be able to react to large and sudden environmental changes in a car but it's a bit difference when you're running, you have to adjust your own balance constantly from any minor changes in the terrain and also Sazed was not running on a modern road, which are somewhat designed for high-speed movement.

Any rock in the road that he hit could have broken bones, or tripped him which would be even more disastrous. 

[Sirscott13 he/him]

So it is safe to say that tapping physical speed has limits where as tapping mental speed and physical speed has far less limits

[Vortaan he/him]

So it is safe to say that tapping physical speed has limits where as tapping mental speed and physical speed has far less limits

 

At the very least tapping both gives you the physical speed to react to your mental speed. I'll wager if you tapped large amounts of both you might hit a wall where you are still thinking at a speed that your body can't quite match.