Grand Table of Rosharan Associations

[CuriousWolf he/him]

Hi folks!  I went hunting for a table that connected all of the info from the various tables and known associations that exist in The Stormlight Archive.  I found one awesome piece of art where someone here on 17th Shard overlaid more info onto the double-eye Knights Radiant and Surges diagram (thanks libdragon!), which was most of what I wanted, but I was really looking for a table format where I could include even more information that would make the picture awfully crowded  So I put one together in a Google Spreadsheet.  Here's the link:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pjqpz-OpsXMVrCj2Vj26x1KS8mM58brrvGbakszh41I/edit?usp=sharing

 

For now I'm only opening it to viewing but I'm very much open to corrections or suggested additions.  I might open it for editing if people are interested.  I'm willing to include some speculation as long as it serves a purpose or is based in known information.  For example: in faded text, I included 'godspren' for Bondsmiths because it conveys some established concepts, even though the details aren't known.

 

I recognize that nothing here is new information, but I figured I would share it since I was making it for myself anyway.  I hope some folks find it useful!

[kaellok he/him]

Looks neat.  Couple of suggestions:

 

1.  Have the number and the word for the number in separate, consecutive columns.  Just a formatting thing, and may look odd to everyone else, but in the quadrillions of Excel sheets that I deal with at work, the first column is almost always just a number list haha.

 

2.  Add a column for each Order's 'special' ability.  Shallan's Memory is known, as is Windrunners getting more squires than others.  

 

3.  We don't know that Bondsmiths bond with godspren; we just know that Dalinar bonded with the Stormfather.  There is much debate on the forums as to whether all Bondsmiths bonded with the Stormfather or not.  We know that it's theoretically possible for others to have been bonded (including Unmade), but not what the result of such a bond would be.  We also know that humans can theoretically bond to more than one spren (with an upper limit), which would suggest that spren might be able to do so as well.  So, I'd suggest making cell I-21 more questionable than it currently is.

 

4.  I like how you've color-coded each of the Orders as well, but would add the color in its own column.

 

Have an e-cookie!

[Pestis the Spider she/her]

2.  Add a column for each Order's 'special' ability.  Shallan's Memory is known, as is Windrunners getting more squires than others.  

How is "getting more squires" a 'special' ability? I always thought that this is just kind of a side effect of the divine attributes of Windrunners, that's all. I mean if you have a "leading" attribute, then of course you get more 'followers', by definition. Unless I'm totally wrong. O.o

 

@CuriousWolf: I would also put primary and secondary attributes in separate columns, in addition to what kaellok said. 

 

Edit: Last edit deleted.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Pestis the Spider

[Oudeis he/him]

Very interesting. I don't recall where we learn Ishar is the Herald of "Luck", do you know where that's stated? From where do we know that Wyndle is a Growthspren?

 

Is it worth adding a column of curses? "By Vedeledev's Golden Keys," I believe it's "By Talaniel's Hand", I'll look that up. Not many of them are stated, and I think Taln and Nalan both have "Hand", but it amused me to see how people profaned in Vorin kingdoms. Curse-words tend to have relevance in Sanderson works.

 

Jezrien has been called the King of Heralds and the Herald of Kings... is that enough to show up in the Herald Of... column?

[CuriousWolf he/him]

1.  Have the number and the word for the number in separate, consecutive columns.  Just a formatting thing, and may look odd to everyone else, but in the quadrillions of Excel sheets that I deal with at work, the first column is almost always just a number list haha.

 

2.  Add a column for each Order's 'special' ability.  Shallan's Memory is known, as is Windrunners getting more squires than others.  

 

3.  We don't know that Bondsmiths bond with godspren; we just know that Dalinar bonded with the Stormfather.  There is much debate on the forums as to whether all Bondsmiths bonded with the Stormfather or not.  We know that it's theoretically possible for others to have been bonded (including Unmade), but not what the result of such a bond would be.  We also know that humans can theoretically bond to more than one spren (with an upper limit), which would suggest that spren might be able to do so as well.  So, I'd suggest making cell I-21 more questionable than it currently is.

 

4.  I like how you've color-coded each of the Orders as well, but would add the color in its own column.

 

Have an e-cookie!

 

1. Done

2. Maybe... I'm not sure we know enough to make this worthwhile, yet.

3. Didn't realize there was as much contention on this.  With all three of the ones where we don't know the actual spren name but have seen an example (Dalinar, Jasnah, Lift) I included the name in faded text.  I'll make sure it's faded more for godspren, and I think I'll add comments on those cells for some detail.

4. I picked the color only from the prototypical color of the associated gem.  I say prototypical because there's lot of variation--ruby and sapphire are both corundum with different trace elements that cause the color--chromium and iron, respectively.  It's actually kind of funny because in the books they refer several times to the purity of the gems, whereas it's actually the impurities that impart the color in our world.  Maybe it's different on Roshar!

(5. Thanks for the cookie!)

 

@CuriousWolf: I would also put primary and secondary attributes in separate columns, in addition to what kaellok said. 

 

 

Done.

 

Very interesting. I don't recall where we learn Ishar is the Herald of "Luck", do you know where that's stated? From where do we know that Wyndle is a Growthspren?

 

Is it worth adding a column of curses? "By Vedeledev's Golden Keys," I believe it's "By Talaniel's Hand", I'll look that up. Not many of them are stated, and I think Taln and Nalan both have "Hand", but it amused me to see how people profaned in Vorin kingdoms. Curse-words tend to have relevance in Sanderson works.

 

Jezrien has been called the King of Heralds and the Herald of Kings... is that enough to show up in the Herald Of... column?

 

Ishar as Herald of Luck is in the entry at Coppermind, and I read it pretty recently which means it's probably within the first 500 pages of WoR.  I think it was in an epigraph, but not sure.

 

Column of curses... hmm.  Sure, I guess.  I know we have seen a few of those, and you're right that they're usually quite intentional.

 

I put Jezrien as Herald of Kings in faded text.  Thanks!

Edited June 21, 2015 by CuriousWolf

[Oudeis he/him]

"Ishar" is only mentioned three times in Words of Radiance... although one is a curse! Ishar's soul. None of them mention him being the Herald of Luck. Perhaps it was Way of Kings? I'll check that next.

 

AH-HA! Found it. Way of Kings, Chapter 23. Ishi, Herald of Luck be praised! ... That's a quote, I'm not actually praising him at the moment.

 

Also I forgot to say last time, I really like the staggered rows for Order/Surge!

[CuriousWolf he/him]

Further back than I thought!  I've been binge-rereading, so I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised.

 

Edit: Thanks, re: offset rows.  That was half the reason I did this.  Various tables that all had keys to one another.  It's a great way to set up an application database, not so much for getting the big picture

Edited June 21, 2015 by CuriousWolf

[Kelek's Breath he/him]

Is it worth adding a column of curses? "By Vedeledev's Golden Keys," I believe it's "By Talaniel's Hand", I'll look that up. Not many of them are stated, and I think Taln and Nalan both have "Hand", but it amused me to see how people profaned in Vorin kingdoms. Curse-words tend to have relevance in Sanderson works.

If you are interested in making a column with the curses by the Heralds names, here is a thread that will help:

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/13170-swearing-by-the-heralds/

[The Honor Spren she/her]

 

3.  We don't know that Bondsmiths bond with godspren; we just know that Dalinar bonded with the Stormfather.  There is much debate on the forums as to whether all Bondsmiths bonded with the Stormfather or not.  We know that it's theoretically possible for others to have been bonded (including Unmade), but not what the result of such a bond would be.  We also know that humans can theoretically bond to more than one spren (with an upper limit), which would suggest that spren might be able to do so as well.  So, I'd suggest making cell I-21 more questionable than it currently is.

 

There is a place in the series somewhere that says there were only 3 bondsmiths ever at a time. I can't remember where though. Just saying.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

There is a place in the series somewhere that says there were only 3 bondsmiths ever at a time. I can't remember where though. Just saying.

 

Actually it does not say that, though people often interpret it that way.  Here's the actual text:

 

But as for the Bondsmiths, they had members only three, which number was not uncommon for them; nor did they seek to increase this by great bounds, for during the times of Madasa, only one of their order was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru and its thrones. Their spren was understood to be specific, and to persuade them to grow to the magnitude of the other orders was seen as seditious.

 

So what it actually means is that at the point in time the text is describing there were only three Bondsmiths, which it was not uncommon for them to number (i.e. there are often three of them but that isn't a definite number, there aren't /always/ three of them)

[The Honor Spren she/her]

Actually it does not say that, though people often interpret it that way.  Here's the actual text:

 

 

So what it actually means is that at the point in time the text is describing there were only three Bondsmiths, which it was not uncommon for them to number (i.e. there are often three of them but that isn't a definite number, there aren't /always/ three of them)

Okay. Sorry for my bad memory (Even though I have read WoR about 5 times, I still read WAY to fast)