The Nature of Splinters

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I fail to see the direct relevance of that quote. Someone specifically asked if a drab could Return, and he said no. That is what I am referring to.

Well, the "Endowment's gift of a superpowered Breath would come down, strike the Lifeless" kinda implies that it's not a transformation.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[NewbSombrero he/him]

Well, the "Endowment's gift of a superpowered Breath would come down, strike the Lifeless" kinda implies that it's not a transformation.

 

But the fact that someone needs to have a Breath when they die to Return that there is at least a transformative component to it. I don't think that what I proposed above is by any means complete, but I do think it may be at least somewhat on the right track.

[Morsk he/him]

Aons, Breaths, Metals, Stormlight...all fuels for magic on Sel, Nalthis, Scadrial, and Roshar respectively. If Aons are found in Seons and are referred to.as Splinters (the only real reference to a specific Splinter so far) wouldn't it stand to reason that a Splinter on Scadrial would take the form of a metal core in some entity; on Nalthis it would be a Breath that is some part of an entity; and on Roshar it would be Stormlight found inside... possibly chasmfiends, greatshells, which we've already seen people pull Stormlight from?

What if spren are made of Stormlight? They can be trapped in gems to make fabrials, so it's a definite possibility. And Stormlight seems to be the fuel on Roshar. If we find out in WoR that spren are made of it, that would be a big point in favor of this theory.

[Alatar he/him]

This doesn't feel right for me. BS said that Splinters "have never been human."

 

 

I don't say they are, I say that they "bond" (they are hold) by humans. Returned are the bond of a Splinter (Divine Breath) and a human. So maybe Seons are the same, the bond of a Splinter and a human, just with Returned it's so easy to accept that because they look like humans do, and Seons look more like spirits or fabrications.

[NewbSombrero he/him]

I don't say they are, I say that they "bond" (they are hold) by humans. Returned are the bond of a Splinter (Divine Breath) and a human. So maybe Seons are the same, the bond of a Splinter and a human, just with Returned it's so easy to accept that because they look like humans do, and Seons look more like spirits or fabrications.

 

That would certainly agree with the fact that when that Spiritual connection is tampered with by the broken Shaod, Seons get wonky. 

[Alatar he/him]

But the fact that someone needs to have a Breath when they die to Return that there is at least a transformative component to it. I don't think that what I proposed above is by any means complete, but I do think it may be at least somewhat on the right track.

 

I don't see it as a transformation but as a requisite, just as anyone not from Scadrial can't burn metals because it's not in their spiritweb, and people not from Nalthis can't Awaken, even if they are given Breath. (If someone needs quotes, I'll provide, but I think it's been repeated a lot of times recently).

 

What if spren are made of Stormlight? They can be trapped in gems to make fabrials, so it's a definite possibility. And Stormlight seems to be the fuel on Roshar. If we find out in WoR that spren are made of it, that would be a big point in favor of this theory.

 

I was posting against what you said but while writing I think you may be right, this theory postulates that Splinters assume a form similar to the one of the magic system component (aons, breath), so if sprens are made out of Stormlight, it could be, yes.

[Leuthie]

Made out of Stormlight sounds a bit hokey to me. Narratively bad. And Spren were around before Honor was killed. Some have changed since the Splintering, maybe even in direct reaction to it, but they aren't Splinters.

Is there a quote stating that Divine Breaths are Splinters? I thought Endowment was whole when last we were in Nalthis.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Honestly, the way stormlight acts when people breathe it in is very similar to Vin taking in the mists.  Especially the whole 'coming out of the pores' thing.

 

I'm guessing they're both the gaseous forms of shardic power.

[NewbSombrero he/him]

Made out of Stormlight sounds a bit hokey to me. Narratively bad. And Spren were around before Honor was killed. Some have changed since the Splintering, maybe even in direct reaction to it, but they aren't Splinters.

Is there a quote stating that Divine Breaths are Splinters? I thought Endowment was whole when last we were in Nalthis.

 

Yes to both parts. 

 

 

SKYLER

If a returned gives away his/her breath they die right? So why doesn't Vasher die after he gives his to Denth?

BRANDON SANDERSON

They will die the moment they run out of breath to harvest. Once a week their body needs a breath in order to survive. Each Returned has one single superpowered breath. Imagine it as one breath that propels them up through the Heightenings, but it is only a single breath. It's what we speak of in Shard world terminology as a Splinter. And when the seventh day comes, if a Returned does not have another breath for his body to consume to keep him alive, his body will actually eat his divine breath and kill him. So they don't die immediately after they get rid of the breath, they're sort of put into a state of limbo where if they don't find more breath by the time that their feast day comes, then they will die. (Vasher did not give his Returned breath to Denth, just a number of normal breaths.)

Source

 

There's also another quote that confirms the voice Lightsong heard to be Endowment linked from the coppermind page for Breath. 

[Alatar he/him]

Made out of Stormlight sounds a bit hokey to me. Narratively bad. And Spren were around before Honor was killed. Some have changed since the Splintering, maybe even in direct reaction to it, but they aren't Splinters.

Is there a quote stating that Divine Breaths are Splinters? I thought Endowment was whole when last we were in Nalthis.

 

Well, this is what this whole thread is about.

 

A Divine Breath is the same as a normal Breath, it acts the same, only that is has a lot more power. Also, we don't know the process of transformation into a Returned, maybe the DB "looks for" someone suitable or whatever, we just know that they are Splinters and in some ways behave like normal Breath (being transfered, feeding a Returned).

 

Same with Seons and Aons inside them. The Aons inside Seons have the same form as normal Aons and, according to the quote above where BS tells how the deleted scene was going to be (Ien healing Dilaf, and Ien is the Aon used for healing), it seems that they behave like normal Aons.

 

So, maybe, why not?, sprens are Stormlight with intent. I think it could be. I think it could not be that, of course, but, why not?

[Krelian]

Does the "Endowment's gift" part of that Brandon quote imply that Endowment actively oversees the Return process? 

[NewbSombrero he/him]

Does the "Endowment's gift" part of that Brandon quote imply that Endowment actively oversees the Return process? 

 

If I remember correctly, the annotations shed light on that topic, but I can't remember which way it goes. I want to say yes though.

[Alatar he/him]

Does the "Endowment's gift" part of that Brandon quote imply that Endowment actively oversees the Return process? 

 

 

Well, it's not explicity said, as far as I know or was able to find out. But we have a couple quotes from BS (is it just me, or the Q&A with BS look like a fortress siege?).

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=428#59

 

Zas678

I know that we've "interacted with two directly" (the pool in Elantris, and The Voice that called Lightsong back to life) that we've "seen it's power" (Dahkhor??) and another that we've seen their infulence (I have no idea on this one, though I think it might be whatever pointed out Aon Rao in Elantris to Raoden)

Brandon Sanderson

Nice guesses on most of those. You've got some things right. You've got some things wrong. The only thing I'll confirm (and I don't think I've said this before) is that The Voice is, indeed, one of the Shards of Adonalsium. (Endowment is that Shard's true name, by the way.)

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=680#11

 

Goradel

Also, does Endowment have some physical presence in the book similar to Ruin=Atium, etc?

Brandon Sanderson (Goodreads)

Endowment does have such a thing, but it does not appear onscreen in the novel Warbreaker.

 

In another Q&A, he confirms that the Edgli flowers are related to Endowment, so that's probably the physical presence he is referring to. Just for info.

 

So, it seems very likely that Endowment is alive and full (not forcefully splintered), so it's easy to believe that s/he self-splinters to endow the Divine Breath on people. Maybe s/he just splinters and send the splinter on itself to look for someone but, at least, Endowment is clearly watching his/her Returned, going to the extreme of talking to one of them (I would say that's Divine Intervention). Maybe s/he talks to them in other occasions, for example sending the visions, which we now know are true, based on what Lightsong saw about the war.

 

So my guess is yes, Endowment oversees the process. If not, at least s/he oversees the Returned once they are set.

 

EDIT: flowers were Edgli flowers.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Alatar

[NewbSombrero he/him]

The one problem I know have with the theory of the Tears of Edgli being Endowment's body is that, if I remember correctly, they do appear on screen in a Vivenna scene. Looks like now I need to go reread it. (Like I actually need an excuse.)

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I don't think we've actually seen it.

[Windrunner he/him]

Yes, we have, although it was a fairly brief appearance. I made a topic about this a few months ago, and if I remember right, the general consensus was that Brandon had simply forgotten about it.

Don’t think about the danger, Vivenna thought, clinching her fists. She focused on the gardens. The truth was, she was a little jealous of the T’Telirites. People lounged, sitting on the grass, lying in the shade of trees, their children playing and laughing. D’Denir statues stood in a solemn line, arms upraised, weapons at the ready, as if in defense of the people. Trees climbed high into the sky, spreading branches that grew strange flowerlike bundles. Wide- petaled flowers bloomed in planters; some of them were actually Tears of Edgli.

 

 

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Could also be that Vivennia, unaccustomed to botany, mistook a similiar plant.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[b4dave he/him]

I doubt that she mistook the plants...from the sounds of it, they are pretty distinctive. What I want to know is, if one makes dyes from the Tears of Edgli, and an Awakener uses them as fuel for a Command...do they make the Command stronger?

[Alatar he/him]

I doubt that she mistook the plants...from the sounds of it, they are pretty distinctive. What I want to know is, if one makes dyes from the Tears of Edgli, and an Awakener uses them as fuel for a Command...do they make the Command stronger?

 

 

I think that's a question for the next assault on BS.

 

I'm mostly sure he won't answer straight, of course

[Windrunner he/him]

I guess so. I question whether there would be any purpose for having Vivenna misidentify the plants. I mean, it's not exactly a twist on par with the Lord Ruler's identity. He didn't know that we would ask about the Tears anyways. While he could have anticipated a question like that, I think it's an easier explanation that he simply forgot one throw-away line in Warbreaker.

[Morsk he/him]

Didn't he add the Tears later, in response to beta readers? At first they were just described in exposition about their place in trade, and readers asked why they never appeared or something, so he added in an appearance?

I unfortunately can't find the reference on that and googling things like "brandon tears of edgli appearance feedback" gives me mostly nonsense.

[jturner]

First post, sorry if I mention something that has already been mentioned. 

 

can the mist on scadrial be a **edit** splinter **(thanks for the catch)? It has intent, snapping. Someone above mentioned Vin drawing it in, and I was already thinking the same thing. It's power that can bind to a user but has intent (base) as well...very similar to an 'unthinking' spren, no? 

Edited March 28, 2013 by jturner

[Senor Feesh]

I think you mean Splinter, not Shard - and I may be wrong, but I think it's confirmed that there are no Splinters on Scadrial

[Phantom Monstrosity]

As far as I understand, the mists are still part of Preservation - there isn't any splitting of the shard going on.

[Alatar he/him]

Yes, BS confirmed we haven't seen any Splinter on Scadrial, that's why I wondered what makes a Returned or a Seon (the only two confirmed Splinters) different from the mists or the pools.

 

It seems that, rather than being Splinters of a Shard, they are manifestations of the aspects of a Shard (physical, cognitive, spiritual). I haven't got time to dig in and be accurate but, out of memory, I think the pool is Ruin's Cognitive aspect, and the mist is what remains of Preservation Cognitive, which Leras used to imprison Ruin's power.