jturner

Two points derived from Hoid's notes at the end. First, twinborns don't have just two powers, or in the way of kings double surges; they have two powers and an effect. I think this explains Wax's extra endurance while in the mists; it may also explain Paalms limited ability to speak through the spikes if she is using two types of investitture (trell(and whatever shard he is)/ruin?) The other thing; it says god metals aren't readily available, but not NOT available. It also says that there are 32 alloys we don't know about (God Metal alloys). Perhaps atium is one of the elements of the spike? Since we don't know these alloys, they may easily explain a lot of what Paalm can do but isn't supposed to be able to. Trell/Ruin alloy spike?

Aha! I see what you are saying now. I read the Q+A you linked to, and it looks like he said they would be called mistborn. However, there are several things to consider. First, there are no full mistborns anymore. They are now 'legend', so if someone appeared burning all the metals, I think they could be called mistborn by 'modern' folks (what was once a 'scientific' term now becomes a colloquialism). Mistborn definitely meant someone who could burn all the metals in the first three books; it also meant someone who was not an inquisitor because the mists pull away from hemalurgically spiked individuals. And, of course, we know that metal burning is of preservation and hemallurgy is of ruin. So to say that a creature empowered purely by hemallurgy is 'mistborn' seems to be the kind of mistake that an average person on Scadrial observing someone using the powers might make if they didn't know what we know (which, of course, they don't). I take your point though. I just think that Brandon's answer (or really the interpretation I read, I didn't watch the video) was evasive enough that I wouldn't throw away something related to atium yet (or the preservation metal). What do you think about my other stuff? The two powers together creating an 'effect'? Odium creating a God Metal? Or one of the uknown alloys? It there are 32 other alloys available if Harmony gave up a little God Metal...

I am not sure exactly the point you are making. Are you saying that Brandon said, essentially, that Inquisitors are mistborn? I don't think that makes sense. And certainly someone can get one power from a spike (lestibournes), or augment a power they already have (Vin) with a spike.

OKay, revision then: he has an atium spike (hemmalurgy). There has to be a couple of those floating around from dead inquisitors.

At the end of the book, Hoid's comments say "[t]here are sixteen base metals that work, though two others -named the "God Metals" locally- can be used in alloy to craft an entirely different set of sixteen each. As these God Metals are no longer commonly available, however, the other metals are not in wide use." ie, the alloys. Tan was an atium misting (apparently not, see below)....has an atium granting hemmalurgy spike Lessie (or the agent of odium) found Atium on Tan (given by Marsh/harmony for use in his crime) Odium formed a metal from himself (a third God Metal) and makes an odium/ruin (odium god metal/atium) Alloyed spike. OR one of the hitherto unrevealed alloys (atium plus something else) is formed from knowledge given by odium. This gives her access to new and different powers (or possibly an 'effect; see below), including speaking through other's through hemallurgy spikes. Under Hoid's notes for "combinations": ""...the mixing of different types of investiture has curious effects. One needs look only at what has happened on Roshar to find this manifested - two powers, combined, often have an almost chemical reaction. In stead of getting out exactly what you put in, you get something new." Later...."Not just two powers, you could say, but two powers....and an effect." That's also why Wax can suck in the mists and get strength/endurnace from them, perhaps?

1.Good call. He said that all the orders of knights radiant are present in the drawings at the front of the book; one big circle (power) plus to little circles (minor powers)= an order of knight radiants. 2. when you say 'they lost something', do you mean the shards then?

I don't believe I am confused. I agree, honesty is associated with t/Truth and I agree that truthspren are associated with t/Truth; I do not agree that truth is necessarily associated with Honesty. We are dealing with sufficencies and necessities. If you have honesty, then you will at least occasionally have truth (honesty->truth) it does not follow that if you have truth, then you must ever have honesty. It's flawed reasoning, a mistaken reversal. Shallan used or bonded with a truthspren (at least attracted it) even though she was DIShonest. Remember, the things are asking her "what are you" in the midst of her being completely DIShonest. So honesty clearly isn't a player in attracting truthspren (but may be for honorspren...Syl was very particular about Kaladin lying).

First...sorry for the confusion. I thought you were responding to the fact that Spren were not attracted to an attribute, in addition to saying that jasnah is not bonded to a truthspren. I didn't see Jasnah as being confused by the truthspren, just shocked that Shallon could see them. Telling the truth is not honesty, as you stated. You can be honest, and still express untruth mistakenly. You can have the truth, and choose not to be honest. Honesty is a characteristic of nobility (coming from the same root as honor), or a need to 'tell it like it is'. So in the phrase 'tell it like it is' Honesty would be the 'tell it' and truth would be the 'is'. Honesty will, at least once, produce truth, but truth does not necessarily ever need to produce honesty. I am not going to go to the mats on what kind of spren she is bonded to, if any. However, Jasnah's whole life is dedicated to finding out the truth; she is a veristatalian. I believe from the latin Veritas meaning: truth. She may not be honest all the time, but she is VERY interested in, and in posession of much, Truth. So here come the truthspren )

"Act with honor and Honor will aid you..." this is coming directly from Tanavast holding the Honor shard...knowing that he is going to die. So he is saying, the shard, Honor, will aid you if you act with honor...even though the shard doesn't act with intent, he may have left something behind that will guide someone toward further use of the shard (like honorspren) this may go beyond honorspren, though, if all the orders powers come from Honor, right? Possibly? Also, what if what was keeping honorspren from coming to Dalinar was the Shardblade? Syl hates it....like the mist not being able to connect with Vin b/c of her earing....what if the shards are of Odium? What if shardblades are an odium copy of honorblades....tricksy!!

Yeah...lika a parshman? Windrunner, let me restate. I responded to your 'creativity and honesty', but I was originally talking about "Truth"...not honesty or creativity. We aren't talking about honesty spren, I think. We ARE talking about truth spren. Maybe I am wrong, but didn't Shallon bond with a truth spren; or at least interact with it to get to shadesmar? Even though she is really dishonest, she knows how to see and express the truth when it fits her, and do it well (whether in word or drawing). Same with Jasnah, who has many secrets and can be dishonest but spends her life searching for truth. Ex: Truthspren, "what are you?" Shallan "a murderer", Truthspren "that's a powerful truth", Bam, shadesmar. Well, we can disagree, but I am pretty sure Brandon is trying to make the point that spren are drawn to the aspect they are named for, not produced by it.

@PM...that's what I'm talking about! The parshmen have some sort of blockage. I am still new, and this info is very new (I just read it in the last few days) but someone asked brandon if the parshmen were forced into the state they are in (their non-form stormform), and he said that it is not one that a parsh would choose....Much like the mistwraiths. ***I think this was a verbal question after the reading from the Parshendi Shardbearers POV in that same interview I linked earlier**

haha! good guess. Dalinar as honors and Kaladin as Odiums. Kaladin sure does hates him some lighteyes

@ windrunner...for Jasnah, not creativity, but honesty? Come on, that's what she is pushing through the whole book. Especially self honesty. I don't know where you live, but I would put a coke on the line on this one...there is a requirement of interaction with Spren in those 2 cases (not Szeth, I know) @PM Syl is drawn to the honor in Kaladin, and changed by him through the Nahal Bond. She is therefore able to fight off the Death spren that are drawn to the 'death' that Kaladin is about to experience. Mmmmm...what would a Parsh bonded with a deathspren in stormform look like? voidbringer Just kidding, that's a total shot in the dark.

I see strongly Hinduism and Bhudism. In Hinduism, Adonasium, shards, splinters...Brahman. One creator ten sons. Brahma. the part seeking the whole. Action and reaction (Karma). Vedenism (vedanta, vedas)? In Bhudism, seeking a pat and dedication to that path to achieve perfection...the more dedicated to the path, the more connected to the spirit (uh...Nahel Bond?) Most stories that have themes beyond the banal are going to repeat overarching themes of the divine found in many religions. The fact is that in order to tell a story that will sell, putting out a worldview that espouses absolute truth probably wouldn't sell very well. Come to think of it, that is apparently true for religions themselves I would say, at best, this is very well hidden allegory on the part of Brandon. I am not Hindu or mormon, just saying, that All religions point to the evidence of divinity en the natrual world.

Odium's champion will end up being someone we don't expect. 10 books, Brandon likes his twists and turns.

here's a link. It's not transcripted, but you can listen. http://goo.gl/gdgVY Also, and the reason I posted this in the 'cosmere' section is seeing the relationship between beings and the Shards that created them...well, actually, I suppose that a sliver created Koloss and Kandra. Weird, because they are of ruin, but created by TLR using preservation. But clearly they are 'of ruin', even though they oppose him. Could the Parsh be 'of Odium' but also oppose him?

reply. Thanks for the contest!

In agreement with Alatar, I think it was restated too many times between Syl and Kaladin not to mention....Spren are DRAWN to the element they are named for. So I think it is very possible that by following the codes, the Way of Kings and acting honorably, a trasnformation could occur within the men of bridge 4 (or any) that actually imputes honor to them...and honorspren are then drawn to them. Check Syl's face as they begin asking about it...I think she was 'contemplative' or something like that. Another way; Shallon is ALWAYS saying what she thinks, as does Jasnah. They are compelled to speak the truth, so there is a quality of truthiness that the spren are drawn to. So if you could teach someone to seek and express truth, you have the potential to draw truth spren and then achieve soulcasting.

Hoid is Wit, so probably not Hoid.

uh...spoilers. Not sure how to work the tags yet, first time...sorry. We are lead to believe that the Parsh/endi/men are voidbringers in WoK. We now have a parshendi POV and we know that they don't want 'their gods' to return. Interesting. We also know that they go out in a highstorm and bond with a spren to achieve a new form, and that those forms have names. Cool. Okay, so I am thinking that the Parshendi are very similar in some ways to Kandra/Koloss/. They have their own will, but can be anywhere form influenced to completely dominated by a Shard in some way (inserted metal). So the Voidbringer is an assertion of control by Odium at the right time, much like ruin with the Kandra/Koloss. I don't mention inquisitors because humans don't need ruin to maintain, where Koloss and Kandra absolutely do. Remove ruin, they lose sentience/life (not sure how half Koloss work..yuck). While Humans CAN bond with a spren, Parshmen must bond with a spren. Hm...so their slave form kind of reminds me of the broken shaod also. They are always awaiting a command...Odium The only thing that breaks that zombie like state is strong emotion (moving their dead...(Marsh being controlled by ruin). So I think who needs to be united (Dalinar's mandate) are....Parsh and humans (or all races, I guess..still not sure who is 'human'). Find a way to break the parshmen from their zombiness to fight against odium; my feeling is this has to do with the type of spren they are bonded to. Finally...rocks? Rocks are going to be important. Maybe the parshendi were parsh who were not in contact with Rocks and therefore able to resist a forced transformation to zombie mode...but that's getting out there, I know. thanks for any input. I can't wait for Book 2!!

First post, sorry if I mention something that has already been mentioned. can the mist on scadrial be a **edit** splinter **(thanks for the catch)? It has intent, snapping. Someone above mentioned Vin drawing it in, and I was already thinking the same thing. It's power that can bind to a user but has intent (base) as well...very similar to an 'unthinking' spren, no?