Question 11

[Redbird he/him]

I meant that heat is kinetic energy at a molecular level, so he sort of already absorbs kinetic energy, so it isn't a huge stretch that he could absorb it on a larger scale. I like the healing idea, but let's see what redbird wants.

 

Phoenix's ashes are not essential to his reincarnation - they are just right where he died, and therefore right where he will reincarnate. If the ashes are scattered, nothing special happens - Phoenix just relights on fire (not sure how explosively) when he reincarnates, and like Firefight, has a greater ability right after his reincarnation.  I was wondering if I wanted him to be angry or cautious, and whether he'd have to fight his way out.

 

Edit: Voidus, did you like what Xanas was doing in the Parshendi War?  "Ah, well, gotta write that epic eulogy for a flaming bird that Voidus killed."

I do think the idea of converting the energy into something like healing, food or just something else that isn't an offensive ability. As for the kinetic energy, i will think about it.

[Edgedancer he/him]

 

Epic name: Heatsink, unless I can come up with something better.

 

Age: Early 20's

 

Powers:

• Energy absorption, for anything but kinetic energy.
• Electricity and heat can only be absorbed by direct contact.
• Increased agility and reaction time.
• He cannot redirect that energy.

Weakness: Either escalators or rats.

 

Description/use of powers:He dresses and acts like vanillas do in public, this is mostly so he can surprise energy epics. Although sometimes he likes to show off and intimidate people, by absorbing all the light that hits him and turning into a human shaped area of pure blackness. He sometimes uses this for stealth, by darkening an area just enough to where others cannot see. He is an expert escape artist, often pulling most of the heat out of a binding or wall to shatter it.  

 

I don't know if I want to have any secondary powers or not yet.

 

Welcome and just because I've learned to be explicit in these matters. Is there anything he can absorb fom a distance?

 

No more than reality does, momentum and energy are related concepts, she only affects the energy that comes as a result of momentum so it's well within scope.

I could wiggle around the use of an idealized version (Something I actually got the idea from Brandons cognitive aspects and spritual ideals) but it provides some limitations at least and at the very least it doesn't compel me to just alter her powers as needed, I could obviously but I won't, I already have a working model and I'll stick to that model regardless of what occurs in story, having no planned model but just saying 'it just works because it does' provides me with no way to prepare for future situations now while I'm free from bias. This way if someone asks me a question I can say 'well this is how I've imagined the idealized version and her powers interactions so logically it should work this way' rather than just 'well, I'd prefer it to do this so it does this.'

The point is that I'd be setting those limits now rather than on the fly as they're needed and when my answer may be influenced by bias, that's the benefit of having a structured system rather than handwaving it. (Also I seriously doubt anyone would accept that the ideal version of a human body has lightning coursing through it)

The difference essentially comes down to a completely subjective approach where I just handwave explanations away, or a largely rules-based approach with certain subjective elements (Which are going to be necessary whatever happens, there's no objective way to differentiate between blood movement and muscle movement)

 

Again, an 'object' is a highly subjective definition, and an 'object as a whole' makes even less sense subjectively with the multitude of differing momentums within it. For instance from my perspective, the electrons would become a part of the system as soon as they made contact, electrons flow freely between atoms, they don't 'belong' to one object and stay there forever, as soon as an electron entered the body it would be part of the system and so stopped.

That seems like the logical chain to me. Which is the problem with subjectivity and handwaving, it renders little ability to differentiate which of us is right because there is no right.

There can at least be some discussion over what constitutes the natural, idealized version of a person, blood flow at the least, breathing, brain activity, not on fire or being shocked with electricity, whether eye movement or blinking would be allowed or not is a somewhat more subjective debate but there can at least be a debate, we all share somewhat of the same idea of what constitutes a normal, living person, we can't all share an idea on handwaving.

Just help me with understanding four points here.

1) How does reducing an objects momentum equade to setting it to a specific temperature?

2) On this part specifically:

 

(Also I seriously doubt anyone would accept that the ideal version of a human body has lightning coursing through it)

If that person got hit by lightning then actually yes I would call that more "ideal" than the lightning magically getting suspended in that persons body, because that's how the human body works under ideal conditions.

Granted, if I imagine the ideal human what I think about wouldn't be getting hit by a lightning in the first place but neither would that ideal have lost an arm or suffer from cancer, which MV's power really shouldn't be able to do anything about, so that "ideal" is hardly a valid point of reference.

3) Isn't your system just as subjective as what counts as an object? I mean not only has it to identify the person as a something but it also has to identify atoms as a something within the bigger something and then figure out how these smaller somethings work within the larger something.

4) On this specifically

 

For instance from my perspective, the electrons would become a part of the system as soon as they made contact, electrons flow freely between atoms, they don't 'belong' to one object and stay there forever, as soon as an electron entered the body it would be part of the system and so stopped.

But at no point are you stopping the "system" or any part of the system. Everything within the body, which I suppose you mean by the system still works normally and in the human body, if it's working ideally electrones flow.

 

Kobold, do you want to work out a conversation or should I just jump cut them to the museum?

[Voidus]

Welcome and just because I've learned to be explicit in these matters. Is there anything he can absorb fom a distance?

 

Just help me with understanding four points here.

1) How does reducing an objects momentum equade to setting it to a specific temperature?

2) On this part specifically:

If that person got hit by lightning then actually yes I would call that more "ideal" than the lightning magically getting suspended in that persons body, because that's how the human body works under ideal conditions.

Granted, if I imagine the ideal human what I think about wouldn't be getting hit by a lightning in the first place but neither would that ideal have lost an arm or suffer from cancer, which MV's power really shouldn't be able to do anything about, so that "ideal" is hardly a valid point of reference.

3) Isn't your system just as subjective as what counts as an object? I mean not only has it to identify the person as a something but it also has to identify atoms as a something within the bigger something and then figure out how these smaller somethings work within the larger something.

4) On this specifically

But at no point are you stopping the "system" or any part of the system. Everything within the body, which I suppose you mean by the system still works normally and in the human body, if it's working ideally electrones flow.

 

Kobold, do you want to work out a conversation or should I just jump cut them to the museum?

1- Temperature is the random movement of particles, those particles posses mass so it can also be described as the random distribution of momentum.

2- It's not a context dependant ideal, that's the point, it's a separate ideal that defines how a persons body normally acts, regardless of circumstance.

Slight Mistborn spoilers

The equivalent of the cognitive ideal that Feruchemical gold heals people to and the reason Sazed never healed from being castrated.

3- That's not in the least subjective, that's just complicated, complicated can be dealt with logically, if I rush through and do an estimate and someone disagrees they can show me the mass and I'll agree with them, if I just subjectively decide what happens and someone disagrees there's nothing to discuss or prove, my way goes just because I subjectively decided it does.

4-This kind of proves my point, we're disagreed about what the electrons should do since it's a subjective view, if I go with the handwaving suggestion at this point I'd just have to say essentially 'It doesn't really matter that you disagree, this is just how it happens' if I were to just go with 'whatever normally happens would happen' then again her power does nothing because normally bodies don't suddenly freeze.

[Voidus]

/\ /\

Is confused by all scientific stuff going on.

We've moved on to a more philosophical argument now

Apologies to all for taking up valuable pug and pony time.

I hope this makes up for it.

[Edgedancer he/him]

1- Temperature is the random movement of particles, those particles posses mass so it can also be described as the random distribution of momentum.

2- It's not a context dependant ideal, that's the point, it's a separate ideal that defines how a persons body normally acts, regardless of circumstance.

Slight Mistborn spoilers

The equivalent of the cognitive ideal that Feruchemical gold heals people to and the reason Sazed never healed from being castrated.

3- That's not in the least subjective, that's just complicated, complicated can be dealt with logically, if I rush through and do an estimate and someone disagrees they can show me the mass and I'll agree with them, if I just subjectively decide what happens and someone disagrees there's nothing to discuss or prove, my way goes just because I subjectively decided it does.

4-This kind of proves my point, we're disagreed about what the electrons should do since it's a subjective view, if I go with the handwaving suggestion at this point I'd just have to say essentially 'It doesn't really matter that you disagree, this is just how it happens' if I were to just go with 'whatever normally happens would happen' then again her power does nothing because normally bodies don't suddenly freeze.

1) Doesn't that open up the problem of energy conversion? We have two blocks of equal mass, volume, shape and material. One of them room temperature but moving very slowly and the other not moving but very hot. Then MV could shift momentum from the hot object to the slightly moving one, cooling down the not moving one and making the one already at room temperature move faster and then move the momentum back to the not moving block to have it move at some speed faster than the first one originally moved. 

2)

But the cognitive doesn't change how you interact with someone. Sure, Sazed things of himself as not a man and as such can't heal from being castrated but if someone else healed him by some magical means his gold Feruchamy would then recect those changes from his body. Similary, if being hit by lightning the healing wouldn't stop the lightning from electrocuding him, he would just heal from the damage.

By what you say if someone just lost an arm and MV influences them the arm would just pop back into exsistence, which wouldn't make any sense.

3) Okay you got me confused here. A part of the reason you shoot down my idea was that it would first have to settle on what an object is for example a person, which you called a problem because an object is completely subjective, I said that you would still have to settle on what an object is before you can define which atoms are part of it, its mass whatever, and then you say that it isn't subjective when you do it because you subjectively decided it isn't? I'm pretty sure I understood something wrong up there?

[Kobold King he/him]

Kobold, do you want to work out a conversation or should I just jump cut them to the museum?

 

I'm fine with whatever works for you, but I think they should get to the Museum pretty quickly.

 

 

Oh, and here are my pug contributions for the day.

 

 

 

 

[Voidus]

1) Doesn't that open up the problem of energy conversion? We have two blocks of equal mass, volume, shape and material. One of them room temperature but moving very slowly and the other not moving but very hot. Then MV could shift momentum from the hot object to the slightly moving one, cooling down the not moving one and making the one already at room temperature move faster and then move the momentum back to the not moving block to have it move at some speed faster than the first one originally moved. 

2)

But the cognitive doesn't change how you interact with someone. Sure, Sazed things of himself as not a man and as such can't heal from being castrated but if someone else healed him by some magical means his gold Feruchamy would then recect those changes from his body. Similary, if being hit by lightning the healing wouldn't stop the lightning from electrocuding him, he would just heal from the damage.

By what you say if someone just lost an arm and MV influences them the arm would just pop back into exsistence, which wouldn't make any sense.

3) Okay you got me confused here. A part of the reason you shoot down my idea was that it would first have to settle on what an object is for example a person, which you called a problem because an object is completely subjective, I said that you would still have to settle on what an object is before you can define which atoms are part of it, its mass whatever, and then you say that it isn't subjective when you do it because you subjectively decided it isn't? I'm pretty sure I understood something wrong up there?

The heat would just map to more heat, not overall kinetic energy, which is where all the complex maths comes in but approximations should suffice for the purposes of the game.

2- That's because his power is healing, not stopping things from moving, it would still recognize the damage as foreign regardless of how natural it is.

3- I think I misunderstood you then, I thought you were talking about the interactions of the atoms within the object rather than which atoms were inside the object. I suggest avoiding the nebulous concept of an 'object' all together, essentially just defining an area and saying that whatever is inside of this area is affected, otherwise she could target things like the atmosphere and  destroy whatever city she's in in the blink of an eye.

[Voidus]

Well Corpsemaker's all set up to destroy Collaboration so I think once they're back at the museum all we need is to finish off the fight with the dominion then we can timeskip to the MoNA attack and roughly 6 months after we started it the day will end

[Edgedancer he/him]

The heat would just map to more heat, not overall kinetic energy, which is where all the complex maths comes in but approximations should suffice for the purposes of the game.

2- That's because his power is healing, not stopping things from moving, it would still recognize the damage as foreign regardless of how natural it is.

3- I think I misunderstood you then, I thought you were talking about the interactions of the atoms within the object rather than which atoms were inside the object. I suggest avoiding the nebulous concept of an 'object' all together, essentially just defining an area and saying that whatever is inside of this area is affected, otherwise she could target things like the atmosphere and  destroy whatever city she's in in the blink of an eye.

1)So in how far does the power differentiate between the overal kinetic energy and heat and if it differentiates between them how comes changing overal kinetic energy also influences the heat but not the other way around?

2)Okay, so I'm sorry if I'm nitpiking to much here but aren't you the one that just said that it becomes part of the system, which would mean that it isn't foreign anymore?

3)Alright, got it. So I guess we're just down to the usual question for understanding's sake.

[Voidus]

1)So in how far does the power differentiate between the overal kinetic energy and heat and if it differentiates between them how comes changing overal kinetic energy also influences the heat but not the other way around?

2)Okay, so I'm sorry if I'm nitpiking to much here but aren't you the one that just said that it becomes part of the system, which would mean that it isn't foreign anymore?

3)Alright, got it. So I guess we're just down to the usual question for understanding's sake.

1) It doesn't, it treats the heat as just momentum on a smaller scale and it doesn't cause overall KE to influence heat, not sure where we got mixed up here but yeah, heat maps to heat, overall movement to overall movement.

2) It becomes part of the system that her power is affecting, not part of the ideal that it's being compared to, so yes it's not foreign anymore but it's foreign compared to the ideal, which is what modulates the change. Say you tried stabbing her with a knife instead, the momentum the knife imparts to her skin (causing it to split open) is part of the system because it's being affected by her powers, but it's not there in the idealized version so it gets cancelled out.

[Edgedancer he/him]

1) It doesn't, it treats the heat as just momentum on a smaller scale and it doesn't cause overall KE to influence heat, not sure where we got mixed up here but yeah, heat maps to heat, overall movement to overall movement.

2) It becomes part of the system that her power is affecting, not part of the ideal that it's being compared to, so yes it's not foreign anymore but it's foreign compared to the ideal, which is what modulates the change. Say you tried stabbing her with a knife instead, the momentum the knife imparts to her skin (causing it to split open) is part of the system because it's being affected by her powers, but it's not there in the idealized version so it gets cancelled out.

Okay I'll think some more about 1 to see if I can figure out where the mix up came from but I have to interject something to point 2. Before you said that her power would keep her momentum at zero meaning something like a knive wouldn't even be able to impart her skin. (I'm aware of the problem here of her transfering the momentum away from her before she starts moving but you're the one that handwaved this initially.) Plus, what would happen to the knive after that? Would it just sit there in her wound also frozen?

[Voidus]

Okay I'll think some more about 1 to see if I can figure out where the mix up came from but I have to interject something to point 2. Before you said that her power would keep her momentum at zero meaning something like a knive wouldn't even be able to impart her skin. (I'm aware of the problem here of her transfering the momentum away from her before she starts moving but you're the one that handwaved this initially.) Plus, what would happen to the knive after that? Would it just sit there in her wound also frozen?

It wouldn't cut her skin no, that's what I was trying to convey, the momentum from the knife to her skin becomes a part of the system, since she's maintaining her power as soon as the momentum enters the system it's cancelled out because it's not there in the ideal so the knife can't penetrate, technically it has to have at least some momentum to be affected but that's a calculus problem to deal with infinitives, practically speaking it wouldn't move.

If it stabbed her and then she used her powers then yeah the knife would just sit there unable to be removed, so hopefully no one thinks to stab her before she starts shielding (Although to be honest she's more likely to use the air as a shield than apply the power to herself directly, she's not great at thinking up consequences of her power like that) or she's going to be stuck with a knife inside her until someone comes over to her frozen form to help.

[Redbird he/him]

Sorry to be unspecific Edgedancer, only light can be sort of pulled towards him, and it owuld be a pretty small radius. Also how about the energy he takes in powers his agility boost? And would having him be immune to kinetic energy be too powerful?

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

I'm watching the first episode of season five, FiM. Hope it's awesome!

It is. They have....muffins. (That line will make PERFECT sense once you've finished the episode. )

[Kobold King he/him]

I watched part 1.

Creepy...

And now you know why "In Our Town" is Corvallis' national anthem.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Ugh.

Yes. Corvallis.

Gak.

When you read 1984, that episode will be even creepier.

[Kobold King he/him]

When you read 1984, that episode will be even creepier.

Big Brother Best Friend Forever is watching you.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Kobold King

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Big Brother Best Friend Forever is watching you.

Be our friend, Winston. Be our friend, Julia.

[Kobold King he/him]

Be our friend, Winston. Be our friend, Julia.

We are at war with Discord. We have always been at war with Discord.

We are at war with Chrysalis. We have always been at war with Chrysalis.

[TheSilverDragon he/him]

2+2 is five guys.

[Edgedancer he/him]

It wouldn't cut her skin no, that's what I was trying to convey, the momentum from the knife to her skin becomes a part of the system, since she's maintaining her power as soon as the momentum enters the system it's cancelled out because it's not there in the ideal so the knife can't penetrate, technically it has to have at least some momentum to be affected but that's a calculus problem to deal with infinitives, practically speaking it wouldn't move.

Just to make sure I got this straight, everything that adds momentum to her system turns into a part of the system and everything that is in the system but not part of the ideal gets effectively frozen in place. Correct?

 

Sorry to be unspecific Edgedancer, only light can be sort of pulled towards him, and it owuld be a pretty small radius. Also how about the energy he takes in powers his agility boost? And would having him be immune to kinetic energy be too powerful?

Don't worry all is fine as long as you stay consisten with what you actually established. Having the ability he takes in fuel his powers makes sense, I suppose.

As for the power question, that depends on two things. 1)Can he be caught unaware and as such killed with what he could tecnically absorb and 2) Where do you want to put him.

[Redbird he/him]

1) I'm not sure, I will think about it.

2) What are my options?

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

1) I'm not sure, I will think about it.

2) What are my options?

 

Options….

 

1) The Dalles. Epics there have powers that are kind of all over the map, though none of them could be considered OP. This one would be a tad more difficult to join at the moment, as they're in the middle of a panda invasion cease-fire and an attack from Epic cultists. New characters might get lost in the shuffle. It'd be possible, just more difficult to integrate them at this moment. 

 

2) Astoria. Pretty much OP Epics only. Anyone weaker would probably be curb stomped to oblivion. Since there's also an attack going on at the moment, joining might require some creative thinking, though it can be done (as with Timelock). 

 

3) Corvallis. Currently the most new player-friendly thread on the board. The main storyline, about a major member of the government being kidnapped and setting off riots and rebellion, has just gotten underway. There's currently a fight going on at the protest, though it would be easy to write a character elsewhere in the city. 

[18th Shard he/him]

Eh, the fights pretty close to over. Heatsink would also be really interesting with Converter, Phoenix, and some of the other Epics. He could come in as one of Converter's restrainers.

[Edgedancer he/him]

Koblod, what exactly would Lightwards' reaction be to being told about Sam's involvement.