Why Ten Heartbeats?

[Turos]

Ten heralds, ten orders of magic per division, ten everything.

Why ten heartbeats? Is it like the summoning of a Shardblade requires your body to pulse for each of its focuses? Or is it simply the number ten?

Here's an unbased guess: Are the phrases people seem to say when dying, that aren't their own words, but from someone perhaps in Damnation, spoken in the last ten heartbeats of that life?

Edited January 18, 2013 by Turos

[Vindicator]

Ten heralds, ten orders of magic per division, ten everything.

Why ten heartbeats? Is it like the summoning of a Shardblade requires your body to pulse for each of its focuses? Or is it simply the number ten?

Here's an unbased guess: Are the phrases people seem to say when dying, that aren't their own words, but from someone perhaps in Damnation, spoken in the last ten heartbeats of that life?

Ten is probably just a number Brandon decided to use, like sixteen.

As for the death quotes, I doubt it's within the last ten heartbeats - I recall that the Shin's dying words was far too long for merely ten heartbeats.

[Meg]

About ten heartbeats: I had to look up what happens about the heartbeat if somebody is dying due to blood loss. On Wikipedia it's written that the heartbeat (heart rate) increases the more blood is lost, so the 10 heartbeats of the dying that Taravangian observes will be only a few seconds. So here I go with Vindicator.

As for 10 heartbeats while summoning a Shardblade Dalinar says he feels every single heartbeat of this 10 until the Blade is materialized. Whether this is Dalinar's own specific feeling or a general feeling of all Shardbearers, we don't know.

I don't think that the 10 heartbeats are needed to focus on the summoning of the blade, rather than a fixed form of measure that the Shardbearer can be sure after this his blade is materialized. This too, because 10 heartbeats are 10 heartbeats but not a fixed period.

[Straff Venture]

It could be, actually. Before death, the heart slows down prior to entering cardiac arrest, so the Shin could likely have still said this before dying.

[Turos]

Hmm, interesting about the blood loss causing the heart to beat faster, and also about the heart slowing before cardiac arrest.

Also, it's not likely every death quote comes from a death of loss of blood. Not enough information to know, though. Still, the idea was not based in evidence, just looking for patterns.

I actually think the ten heartbeats are necessary, and not just a period to know the blade will be around by then. I'm rereading WoK one character at a time, and can't remember half of it, but still, after listening to Brandon's reading of Stormlight 2: Shallan's Flashback chapter #1, he specifically says at the end of the recording:

"Those who have read the first book know that there are some things going on in Shallan's past. She mentions one of them near the end of the book, if you'll remember, and there is supposition about something with Shallan mentioning several times the phrase: 'ten heartbeats', which is a somewhat important measure in this world."

Edited January 18, 2013 by Turos

[Meg]

"Those who have read the first book know that there are some things going on in Shallan's past. She mentions one of them near the end of the book, if you'll remember, and there is supposition about something with Shallan mentioning several times the phrase: 'ten heartbeats', which is a somewhat important measure in this world."

Hmm, I think that BS there hints to the fact that Shallan is a Shardbearer, but not more.

[Senor Feesh]

I don't think that the 10 heartbeats are needed to focus on the summoning of the blade, rather than a fixed form of measure that the Shardbearer can be sure after this his blade is materialized. This too, because 10 heartbeats are 10 heartbeats but not a fixed period.

I would have to find the quote, I'm not sure but I think it's during the Chasmfiend attack, but Dalinar or Adolin ruminates on the ten heartbeat time. He (whichever of the two it was) considers how it the Shardblade forms faster when the heart rate is increased, such as in times of stress (like before a battle). So the ten heartbeats IS the required time limit. The blade takes EXACTLY this number of beats to form each occasion it is summoned.

As to why? Theorise away! I still don't think we know enough about Realmatic Theory to do more than speculate (and lacking the ability to test our hypotheses, we're stuck in the dark until Brandon gives us more).

[cleric]

My guess would be that 10 heartbeats is a solid round number. There needed to be a delay in summoning. Although 10 seems to be the magic number in this series. heartbeats, heralds, essences (30 across 3 types). May have to do more looking into the number 10 across the book. The second book may be needed to make more solid theories.

[Dros]

The numbers 1-16 are significant in the Cosmere and certian on es are for the Shards, I thought. The nature of that significance is unknown...except to Brandon Sanderson, I imagine.

[Meg]

I would have to find the quote, I'm not sure but I think it's during the Chasmfiend attack, but Dalinar or Adolin ruminates on the ten heartbeat time. He (whichever of the two it was) considers how it the Shardblade forms faster when the heart rate is increased, such as in times of stress (like before a battle). So the ten heartbeats IS the required time limit. The blade takes EXACTLY this number of beats to form each occasion it is summoned.

I think we are talking past each other.

I think the 10 heartbeats are a kind of measurement -- but no time limit (as would be 10 seconds), because (as you explain) 10 heartbeats don't always take the same timespan (could I say so?).

[Turos]

Right, so it would be more of having to start the summoning, wait for ten separate heartbeats to pass, and the Shardblade coalesces in their hand.

Some evidence:

Ten heartbeats passed, and his Blade dropped into his hand, wet with condensation.

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (p. 36). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

[...]and the secret she now carried, hidden ten heartbeats away.

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (p. 131). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

And from chapter 13 entitled "Ten Heartbeats":

Ten heartbeats.

One.

That was how long it took to summon a Shardblade. If Dalinar’s heart was racing, the time was shorter. If he was relaxed, it took longer.

Two.

On the battlefield, the passing of those beats could stretch like an eternity.[...]

Three.

[...]

Four.

[...]

Five.

[...]

Six.

[...]

Seven.

[...]

Eight.

[...]

Nine.

[...]Dalinar’s hand tingled with anticipation.

Ten!

His Shardblade— Oathbringer— formed in his hand, coalescing from mist, appearing as the tenth beat of his heart thudded in his chest. Six feet long from tip to hilt, the Blade would have been unwieldy in the hands of any man not wearing Shardplate. To Dalinar, it felt perfect. He’d carried Oathbringer since his youth, Bonding to it when he was twenty Weepings old. It was long and slightly curved, a handspan wide, with wavelike serrations near the hilt. It curved at the tip like a fisherman’s hook, and was wet with cold dew.

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (pp. 202-203). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

(Emphasis added)

There are some more references to ten heartbeats, but I think this is solid enough to confirm that the heartbeats are indeed the required pattern to summon the blade.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Turos Stoneward

[Windrunner]

I agree with it being ten, as ten seems to be a foundational number in the magic systems on Roshar.

Here's a fun theory on why it's heartbeats that matters. I'm a firm believer that a Shardblade gets attached to someone's Spiritweb much as a spike does. Perhaps the heart corresponds with the point in the Spiritweb where the Shardblade is affixed? We know that the heart is an important bindpoint.

[Observer]

Heartbeats in general seem to be an important measurement. In Mistborn (And likely other books I don't have on hand ATM) heartbeats aren't mentioned as a measurement at all, and yet in Way of Kings Sanderson makes a point to measure time in heartbeats, which could just be their relevance but could also be something else. Sitting by Kaladin's bedside, he waits a hundred heartbeats to leave. Shallan waits a similar amount of time and makes similar wait times.

Just something I noticed.

[Dros]

Heartbeats in general seem to be an important measurement. In Mistborn (And likely other books I don't have on hand ATM) heartbeats aren't mentioned as a measurement at all, and yet in Way of Kings Sanderson makes a point to measure time in heartbeats, which could just be their relevance but could also be something else. Sitting by Kaladin's bedside, he waits a hundred heartbeats to leave. Shallan waits a similar amount of time and makes similar wait times.

Just something I noticed.

That's pretty interesting. How do they refer to specific times of day? I can't seem to remember how they did that.

[Meg]

Heartbeats in general seem to be an important measurement. In Mistborn (And likely other books I don't have on hand ATM) heartbeats aren't mentioned as a measurement at all, and yet in Way of Kings Sanderson makes a point to measure time in heartbeats, which could just be their relevance but could also be something else. Sitting by Kaladin's bedside, he waits a hundred heartbeats to leave. Shallan waits a similar amount of time and makes similar wait times.

Just something I noticed.

Other than in Mistborn, I don't remember that there were clocks mentioned in TWoK. So 'pre-clocks' heartbeats might be a method to measure or determine a timespan, even it is an vague way of measuring. I think Teft could also count up to 100 or count 100 breaths instead of counting 100 heartbeats. I don't think that each counting in TWoK is related to the ten heartbeats.

[Turos]

So what happens with summoning a Shardblade if you have arithmia? Does it summon half-way first, then the second half pops up a beat later? Oooo! Or maybe you get two half-Shardblades!

[SOM1else]

Here's an unbased guess: Are the phrases people seem to say when dying, that aren't their own words, but from someone perhaps in Damnation, spoken in the last ten heartbeats of that life?

=I don't know if it's been confirmed but I think that it is safe to assume that the deathquotes from the chapter headings are spoken by patients who had their blood drained in Taravangian's hospital. If the deathquotes in the Prologue-Chapter 3 were spoken in the last 10 heartbeats then the heart rate of those people would have been ~19.4bpm, 60bpm, 120bpm, and 20bpm. As others have mentioned your pulse increases when you lose a lot of blood, I think that given these heart rates it is highly unlikely that they could have been given in the last 10 heartbeats of someone who was bleeding out.

[Isomere]

The physical focus of all magic on Roshar is waveforms, likely the SOUND of the heartbeats is what matters.  As for the number 10, it seems to crop up a lot, and I don't have a good explanation for it.

[Leuthie]

Arbitrary amount of time set by Honor upon Shardblade creation meant to keep shardbearers from using their shardblades without thought. Ten heartbeats is enough time to think about what you're about to do with the blade.

[Bri-Y]

I have a pet theory that the Shardblade is the last of a set to be summoned. I believe, going on Dalinar's visions of the Knights Radients, that every piece of the shard plate and blade could be summoned with an associated heartbeat.

In other words the first heartbeat are the boots, second legs and knee plate, third greaves, fourth skirt, fifth the chest plate, sixth pauldrons, seventh the arms and elbows, eighth the gauntlets, ninth the helm, and finally tenth the blade.

This ability to summon/dr summon parts of armor would explain the missing helmets and gauntlet furring the vision.

[Bri-Y]

Excuse the misspells from auto correct on phone

"De-summoning" and "during the vision" were what I meant

[Inkthinker]

If your heart beats faster, you summon your Blade faster.

[darkanimereal1]

I have a pet theory that the Shardblade is the last of a set to be summoned. I believe, going on Dalinar's visions of the Knights Radients, that every piece of the shard plate and blade could be summoned with an associated heartbeat.

In other words the first heartbeat are the boots, second legs and knee plate, third greaves, fourth skirt, fifth the chest plate, sixth pauldrons, seventh the arms and elbows, eighth the gauntlets, ninth the helm, and finally tenth the blade.

This ability to summon/dr summon parts of armor would explain the missing helmets and gauntlet furring the vision.

 

Dude, I really like this idea. I guess a good way to find out would be to go back to Dalinar's vision when the two KR fall out of the sky. They have their armor on already, but do they have their shardblades? If they do, then I would say this theory is plausible. If they do not, but summon them, then I would say that would disprove this idea. Still cool

 

I don't think that the 10 heartbeats are needed to focus on the summoning of the blade, rather than a fixed form of measure that the Shardbearer can be sure after this his blade is materialized. This too, because 10 heartbeats are 10 heartbeats but not a fixed period.

 

Actually, I recently read a theory on Coppermind that shardblades reside in the Spiritual Realm when not in use: "It has been theorized that they are stored in the Spiritual Realm, when not used. Also it seems to produce its effect in the Spiritual Realm, killing the soul of people and not the body." For some reason, I really feel like I read a WoB about this. I can go dig it up if there's uncertainty just to be sure. Anyway, I would bet that the ten heartbeats are needed to focus enough energy to drag the Shardblade from the Spiritual Realm into the Physical one. Not sure what the meaning behind it is, but that would make sense to me.

[darkanimereal1]

Ooh, was just looking through my pulled notes and found this from a Q&A with Brandon:

 

"Q: What is the relationship between blood and the Spiritual Realm? (Since Hemalurgy needs blood to graft the sDNA in a spike into someone else's sDNA)

 

B: The blood being in motion is part of it."

From here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2383-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/?p=42476

This seems to reinforce that the ten heartbeats has a direct relationship to the Spiritual Realm.

[Cabbage]

The 10 beats before the summoning of the shard could have some spiritual value.

Since it was the radiants that were given the shards in the begining these 10 heartbeats might be a inbuilt ritual. Perhaps these beats they spend waiting, being vorneble, are supposed to make them humble or something of the like.

 

Speculations all of it though.

 

Edit: Some one pointed out that I had written seconds instead of beats.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Cabbage