Knights Radiant's Shardplate and blades *SPOILERS*

[Aggrax]

Hey everyone, my first post here, I had an odd thought as I was reading through Dalinar's vision of feverstone keep. He describes the knights plate as glowing from the inside. We know this can't just be from the gemstones inside them, since none of the current shards do this. So I thought, what if the plate of a Knights Radiant was actually the source of their stormlight or assisted the Knights is using stormlight in some way

None of the Knights themselves were glowing like Kaladin and Szeth do, but their blade and plate was. Additionally, when picked up by people that can not use stormlight, who had not become knights, the plate and blade went dull

What I think really backs me up on this is when Kaladin says the second oath on the shattered plains. There is an audible crack and the stormlight becomes more intense. Maybe a full Knight can draw in immense amounts of stormlight, or even somehow become a source of .

Thoughts?

[Ryan he/him]

I believe you're on the right track. The glowy shard armor is almost certainly due to the Stormlight-weilding abilities of its bearers.

Szeth can't use his abilities while in Shardplate. There could be any number of reasons for this, but my pet theory is that it's because he hasn't spoken the Words. Something about this Shard's magic requires certain attributes of its wielders, and I see the Words as a way of bringing those out.

[Silus - Shard of Flame he/him]

Or maybe he doesn't wear Shardplate because you can't use lashings on someone wearing it.

[Stormlightning she/her]

Silus--I think that was mentioned specifically as the reason

There doesn't seem to be a lot of directions to follow this up on, because I agree with everyone here. It also got me thinking that--because Kaladin is trying to follow the Knights Radiant--when Szeth shows up to kill Dalinar, Kal might be at a high enough level to actually pose a threat, because of the potential extra ability granted him by using the Words.

[TheFinisher4Ever he/him]

I think that their Plate may have helped them store stormlight as well. In Dalinars vision, the knights are jumping around a great deal and yet they never pull more stormlight from anything. Now, if they are using lashings to blast into the air, they would run our of stormlight fairly quickly. Yet in the vision, they dont seem too worried about it. Now this could also be atributed to the fact that they have spoken all of the ideals but I feel that the plate is important.

[Ryan he/him]

Well, the female Radiant who healed Dalinar in the vision declined to heal his subsequent more minor injuries, because she wanted to conserve the power for more critical cases in the village. I think her words were that she wanted to "save regeneration". Assuming the regeneration power works off Stormlight, then at least one of them was concerned about conserving it.

[happyman he/him]

I suspect that the Plate has to help them somehow.  Szeth probably doesn't know how to use plate correctly in order to make full use of it.  It probably does store a supply of stormlight, probably more effectively than a human body or gem, but it will still run out.

[DariusJenai]

As an interesting sort of question, I wonder if anyone has tried leaving a set of Shardplate out during a highstorm like is done with spheres?

Considering the high-value of plate, I'm considering it unlikely.

[Andrew the Great he/him]

It'd be an interesting test, certainly. I daresay you're right that no one's done it.

TheFinisher4Ever:  Realize that Shardplate grants increased physical abilities. While some of said jumping around was likely Windrunning, it's also likely that a lot of it is just jumping.

I don't think that the plate allows for storage of stormlight, or the gems would be unnecessary to power it. Unless that's just a modern innovation? But I got the impression that shardplate had always been that way.

[Zas678 he/him]

Question- Who makes the Spheres? Are there mines/forgeries? Are they just found by people? Is there a limited amount?

Just something interesting that popped into my head.

[happyman he/him]

It'd be an interesting test, certainly. I daresay you're right that no one's done it.

TheFinisher4Ever:  Realize that Shardplate grants increased physical abilities. While some of said jumping around was likely Windrunning, it's also likely that a lot of it is just jumping.

I don't think that the plate allows for storage of stormlight, or the gems would be unnecessary to power it. Unless that's just a modern innovation? But I got the impression that shardplate had always been that way.

The jumping we think is related to windrunning is the kind where you jump several miles in a single bound, not the kind where you jump across a twelve-foot chasm.  Both are impressive, but I know which I would pick, given a choice.

As for the stormlight, it's a good question.  Something has been missing from the plates ever since the radiants discarded them.  They currently need stormlight to function, and may have always been that way, but we just don't know.  The fact that stormlight is needed to fuel all the magics we've seen suggests that even when the radiants used them, stormlight was probably needed somehow.  However, the Radiants could certainly make better use of it than the current users, and we just don't know what is different.

[TheFinisher4Ever he/him]

Like Happyman, I was under the impression that they were "jumping" miles high into the air. Now assuming they used the same lashings as Szeth, it is possible that they reduced their weight just enough so that a Plate powered jump would have this effect. I, however, saw it as more of a blast, shifting gravity completely around for instance.

So the plate probably didn't store stormlight then. However, Dalinar didn't mention any inhaling of the stuff. Maybe the plate just helps them retain it and not be so leaky.  I mean, If it didn't constantly dissipate, you could go into battle completely full. Perhaps the Plate itself was an effort to mimic the voidbringers who held in stormlight perfectly.

As for how the Spheres are made, it would be simple in a world where soulcasting exists. Just wrap a gem with clay and soulcast to glass, or whatever they are made of.

[Andrew the Great he/him]

I'm personally of the opinion that the radiants could power their Shardplate by feeding it stormlight consciously, making the gems unnecessary. Then they could use the gems as a battery of sorts, allowing them to store extra stormlight to use as necessary.

Of course, they really would probably still need more stormlight than this. I like the idea that the Plate makes them less "leaky." But you raise a valid point. They would need more stormlight than they have ready access too, as far as we can see.

Also, as to the jumping miles vs jumping feet, realize that I haven't read the relevant passage for a couple of months. I have no idea how far they're jumping. I was just making a general comment.

[aSplinter he/him]

Hi, my first post here but had some thoughts... WoK is the first of Brandon's books that I've read, so don't know much about the overall cosmere that unites the books as of yet, but I did have a couple thoughts on the post here:

- In terms of the Words, did it seem to anyone else that Kaladin seemed to become much more efficient in the use of the stormlight he was able to collect, rather than having more of it?  It seemed somewhat like the more Words and thus further down the path of training or belief one goes, the better one gets at using a finite amount of stormlight...

- On the shardplate and blades, I thought that Syl's reaction at the end of the book regarding how Dalinar was a better man without the shardblade, and how she hated the blade, could be really important.  If spren (honorspren and/or other types) were a necessary partner to all Knights Radiant Orders, and they (or just she) hate the shardplate and blades in use by people today, is it possible that they are a different type of plate/blade than the KRs had?  Could they be blades and plate from the 'other' side rather than those used by the KR?  This could go along with the quote from the Almighty at the end of the book about "return to men the shards they once bore"...

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Hi, my first post here but had some thoughts... WoK is the first of Brandon's books that I've read, so don't know much about the overall cosmere that unites the books as of yet, but I did have a couple thoughts on the post here:

- In terms of the Words, did it seem to anyone else that Kaladin seemed to become much more efficient in the use of the stormlight he was able to collect, rather than having more of it?  It seemed somewhat like the more Words and thus further down the path of training or belief one goes, the better one gets at using a finite amount of stormlight...

- On the shardplate and blades, I thought that Syl's reaction at the end of the book regarding how Dalinar was a better man without the shardblade, and how she hated the blade, could be really important.  If spren (honorspren and/or other types) were a necessary partner to all Knights Radiant Orders, and they (or just she) hate the shardplate and blades in use by people today, is it possible that they are a different type of plate/blade than the KRs had?  Could they be blades and plate from the 'other' side rather than those used by the KR?  This could go along with the quote from the Almighty at the end of the book about "return to men the shards they once bore"...

yeah, after he said the Second Ideal, the Stormlight  started working better for him,i he gets more out of it then he did before that, he even thinks something to that effect after.

As for the other, I dunno. I think the reason Syl doesn't like the blades now is that they somehow got contaminated, maybe by all the people that used them selfishly after the Radiants left, maybe BECAUSE the Radiants abandoned their duty, maybe for some other reason. So maybe now people have to figure out how to fix it before they can be used properly again. Or figure out how to make new ones (maybe Talanel can do it?) But that's my theory.

[Balor]

Hi all!

Personally, I have a theory regarding the origin of the shardblades/plates, that is hinted by the chapter where Dalinar uses them as a work tool.

So, what if they WERE work tools someday? Or, at least, purely nonlethal weapons. Perhaps not shardblades themselves, the the principle behind it, save a few late tweaks (see below).

I mean, look: an omnicutting weapon that does NOT cut living flesh. Once the flesh is dead, however, it cuts it easily. It can only be INTENTIONAL effect - otherwise, in the language of TV tropes, it is "Awesome, but impractical" - simply cutting flesh as it cuts anything else will produce comparable or even better effect - it is noted several times battling with a shardblade that does not sever as it kills can sometimes be detrimental. Otherwise it is just 'for coolness sake', and I truly hope that Sanderson is above that.

Perhaps, given the large doze of divine interference in the story, they were originally created as either 100% safe work tools, or weapon with zero lethality but to nonliving (inorganic/inhuman) opponents.

But then they were somehow corrupted or tweaked that they began to 'cut souls'.

It would explain why Syl is so disgusted with shardblades - they are not 'mere powerful weapons', they are perversions of something that once was benigh and perhaps holy.

[Emeralis00 she/her]

was Syl refering to hating all Blades or just that she thought Dalinar Specifically was better off without them?

Random Tangent: can soulcasters wear shardplate?

[Andrew the Great he/him]

It could go either way. It seems like Syl is making a reference to Shardblades in general, but she only specifically talks about Dalinar's blade. The exact quote:

"He's a good man," Syl said. "I've watched him. Despite that thing he carried."

"That thing?"

"The Shardblade."

"What do you care about it?"

"I don't know," she said, wrapping her arms around herself. "It just feels wrong to me. I hate it. I'm glad he got rid of it. Makes him a better man."

[Zas678 he/him]

Maybe it is just Oathbringer. Maybe she doesn't like that sword specifically.

The only trouble with having it be a nonlethal tool, is that its a six foot sword. Not exactly the saftest thing in the book.

As for why it cuts nonliving (or non sentinent) things, while making people's eyes burn (killing them).

I think that Shardblades essentially seperate things. They either seperate the spiritual connection (sort of like how he's explained Gravity to be a spiritual connection to the earth) the atoms have together (cutting through it), or if the object is sentinent (living), it separates the soul from the object.

Perhaps Shardblades were originally given to man to help during the Desolations, but then the Alethi decided they wanted to use them to further their own ends. That dishonor of misusing them is what Syl finds disgusting about them.

Probably. Maybe.

[Andrew the Great he/him]

I find that more likely, though I still don't think that would make the Shardblades feel fundamentally wrong to Syl. In fact, it almost seems more likely that it is just Oathbringer Syl is referring to, for the reason that we know that at one point, some types of Radiant's used both Shardplate and Shardblades. But then, maybe they're an order of Radiants with fundamentally different ideals than the Windrunners, or any of the others that honorspren are bonded with?

[happyman he/him]

I find that more likely, though I still don't think that would make the Shardblades feel fundamentally wrong to Syl. In fact, it almost seems more likely that it is just Oathbringer Syl is referring to, for the reason that we know that at one point, some types of Radiant's used both Shardplate and Shardblades. But then, maybe they're an order of Radiants with fundamentally different ideals than the Windrunners, or any of the others that honorspren are bonded with?

Well, we don't just have Syl's reaction to Dalinar's blade.  We also have Kaladin's reaction to a completely different blade, when he decides not to take it.

Something is up, and it seems likely to apply to all Shardblades.

[SOM1else he/him]

It could go either way. It seems like Syl is making a reference to Shardblades in general, but she only specifically talks about Dalinar's blade. The exact quote:

"He's a good man," Syl said. "I've watched him. Despite that thing he carried."

"That thing?"

"The Shardblade."

"What do you care about it?"

"I don't know," she said, wrapping her arms around herself. "It just feels wrong to me. I hate it. I'm glad he got rid of it. Makes him a better man."

I think that Shardblades essentially seperate things. They either seperate the spiritual connection (sort of like how he's explained Gravity to be a spiritual connection to the earth) the atoms have together (cutting through it), or if the object is sentinent (living), it separates the soul from the object.

Perhaps Shardblades were originally given to man to help during the Desolations, but then the Alethi decided they wanted to use them to further their own ends. That dishonor of misusing them is what Syl finds disgusting about them.

Probably. Maybe.

Doesn't Sly describe herself as a spren that binds things before she remembers she is an oath spren? maybe she doesn't like the shard blades not because of the dishonor but be cause of the separation. Oh that makes me wonder if the shardblades cut through anything by killing the spren holding it together and it doesn't cut through living flesh because it first kills the spren that holds the soul to the body. the eyes are the window to the soul so that could be why they burn out when someone is killed with a shard blade. continuing with the theory that shardblades kill spren then I wonder if there could be more sophisticated use for them.

[Balor]

Well, shardblades killing spren is also a good idea, I admit. I still don't really have any idea why it should avoid cutting flesh before it is dead unless, like I said, the effect is intentional, but as for the spren - there is a hint on that based on the deciphered fabreal notes, and the fact that the fabreal Shallan tried to swap was destroyed by a shardblade.

On the other hand, even if they do kill spren - I still wonder if it is intended effect. I still think that shardblade were 'safe weapons' at first, but then corrupted by Odium.

The only trouble with having it be a nonlethal tool, is that its a six foot sword. Not exactly the saftest thing in the book.

So. What.

It would only be a danger to your sense of propriety, because one can undress you completely with one swing - but it CANNOT harm living flesh, therefore it is completely safe. Ok, you can club someone to death with it, but you might as well be using a piece of rock, and be better off with it.

[Andrew the Great he/him]

I'm not buying that it's a nonlethal tool. The simple fact of the matter is that it's a sword. A sword is a weapon, always. If it were intended as a tool, I'm inclined to believe that we would see Shardaxes, or some other such shape, with more conventional tools.

Some1else, You may have something there, though I'm not sure that I agree with the idea that the Shardblade is killing the Spren holding a person together, as I'm not at all convinced that there is a spren holding something together. However, the fact that Syl, by her nature, seems to bind things, and the Shardblade, by it's nature, seems to cut them, could possibly explain why she doesn't like it.

Well, we don't just have Syl's reaction to Dalinar's blade.  We also have Kaladin's reaction to a completely different blade, when he decides not to take it.

Something is up, and it seems likely to apply to all Shardblades.

That's slightly different, though. The quote:

Kaladin stepped forward, dazed, raising his hand toward the hilt of the Blade. He hesitated just an inch away from it.

Everything felt wrong.

If he took that Blade, he'd become one of them. His eyes would even change, if the stories were right. though the Blade glistened in the light, clean of the murders it had performed, for a moment it seemed red to him. Stained with Dallet's blood. Toorim's blood. The blood of the men who had been alive just moments before.

It was a treasure. men traded kngdoms for Shardblades. The handful of darkeyed men who had won them lived forever in song and story.

But the thought of touching that Blade sickened him. It represented everything he'd come to hate about the lighteyes, and it had just slaughtered men he loved dearly. He could not become a legend because of something like that. He looked at his reflection in the Blade's pitiless metal, then lowered his hand and turned away.

"It's yours, Coreb," Kaladin said. "I give it to you."

So the reason Kaladin doesn't take it is more because of his own personal feelings about this particular blade. It's just killed all of his friends, and in his opinion, taking it would be a betrayal of everything that he holds dear. It's not that the blade itself feels bad to him. It's the circumstances.

Now, granted, there could be something about the Blade that causes him to feel differently, but I'm more inclined to think that Kaladin's revulsion is different than Syl's, and not necessarily directly because of the Shardblade. After all, Kaladin never expresses any dislike toward Dalinar or Adolin's Shardblades, not even when Syl does so.

[aSplinter he/him]

Agree on not buying the non-lethal concept, a sword is by definition a weapon, not a tool that can be used as a weapon at need such as a scythe/hammer/axe... It seems to to me that the shardblades and plate were given to the KR as part of fighting the desolations which included monsters made of rock and other non-flesh type materials, such that the ease of cutting otherwise inanimate objects would be a major plus... I still think there is more to Syl's reaction to the sharblades than we know and that it has to do with the line "return to men the shards they once bore..." Like maybe after the last desolation something happened to the shards to taint them or something... Or perhaps all shards currently in use came from the Parshendi, who really are the opposite side in the desolations, and thus are actually the antithesis of the shards the KR would have had... Crazy but just a thought haha