Nightblood + Skybreakers [Spoilers for WoR]

[Moogle]

Umm, no, storm light and investiture are spiritual in nature not the bond.

 

Investiture transcends the Three Realms. It is not of any:

Question

What is the Realmatic composition of Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Investure is intended to be the building blocks of the cosmere so I would say for the most part it transcends the different realms. Probably more of the Spiritual if anything but more accurately it transcends them.

(source)

 

(Of course, there are numerous references (like a certain someone in Mistborn, how the Dor comes from 'elsewhere') to how the Spiritual seems to contain the Investiture for the most part. But it is not inherently Spiritual.)

 

Bonds are in fact Spiritual. The Spiritual has to do with the connections between things. To quote Shai:

“All things exist in three Realms, Gaotona. Physical, Cognitive, Spiritual. The Physical is what we feel, what is before us. The Cognitive is how an object is viewed and how it views itself. The Spiritual Realm contains an object’s soul— its essence— as well as the ways it is connected to the things and people around it.”

 

Yes it could steal a blade but a spirit web is not the same as investiture

 

Souls are in fact made of Investiture:

Question

If someone--Vasher says that Nightblood would kill him, is that just because he has this big deific Breath? Would it kill an ordinary person, like a drab?

Brandon Sanderson

It would suck the Breath from anybody, and if they were unable to feed it he would feed on their soul.

Question

So they would die.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Anybody wielding Nightblood, he will suck their soul. For too long, he will eventually, if you draw him, he will suck your soul.

(source)

 

Leinton

Does Nightblood possibly rip souls out of people?

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood consumes Investiture, including the spark of life.

(source)

 

There are numerous other references to the fact, like how a Hemalurgic spike becomes Invested after ripping off a part of the soul, Breaths being part of your soul, etc.

[Blaze1616 he/him]

Then maybe an asterisk needs to be added that it is Nalan's group of Skybreakers not necessarily the KR order of Skybreakers. Its on wiki page for the KR order of Skybreakers. If it was on Szeths page I guess it wouldn't be a big deal. I think it is a little misleading.

 

Hrm. I see your point. You should bring this up in the Coppermind Forum on this site. One argument could be that they are still "the same," and that Nalan has been adding people into the group who even don't have powers. I disagree with that, but I don't know why it got put there.

 

 

See in most cases squires are on the path to be a knight not just testing to see if they can. Jasnah's description of the Knights Radient flood of new members sounded like she was talking about large amounts of new bonds by the spren not just random people showing up saying hey I want to join. And i reread the part today where syl says that no honor spren had bonded but her because even she was disobeying the storm father. So it is very likely that with his consent Honor spren started bonding again.

 

A more important point is that Kaladin is half a continent away when Lopen breaths in storm light. I have a hard time believing that Kaladin can grant those kinds of powers from that far subconsciously. If he was with Kaladin the ya I could see that.

 

I have no idea where you got the information behind the bolded statement, so if you could share your source that would be great.

 

Obviously any sort of flux of KR numbers is due to spren, though the Rosharan would likely need to agree to it as well. It has never been stated that any random shmuck could just volunteer to be a KR and get a spren as a result, so I agree with you there. I also agree that with the Stormfather now joining the fight, he ought to let more Honorspren bond with Rosharans, but that is only guess work.

 

As I said, Squire-ship is still very unknown. Does distance matter? I am personally in Moogle's camp in thinking that bonds between beings are what causes power manifestation on Roshar. So if Lopen's ability is due to him being Kaladin's Squire (as the rest of Bridge 4 also showed the ability to absorb Stormlight at the end of WoR), does the distance from Kaladin matter, or is it more the strength of Lopen's bond to Kaladin? Moreover, Lopen is one of the members most loyal to Kaladin, so does this stronger bond have any affect on the distance as well? We don't know the answer to any of these questions, to my knowledge, so any conclusions made are merely guess work.

 

As for my personal opinion, I think all the evidence in the book points to Lopen being a Squire, like the other members of Bridge Four.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

@Arook
 
I would definitely argue that the bonds are Spiritual in nature as it definitely seems to fall under the category of "Connection", which is a Spiritual thing.
 
Also on the whole squire discussion, I'm still sorting through all of the WoB from the Firefight tour (and from before... le sigh) but trust me when I say you are wrong about the nature of squires.  They are different from proto-Radiants.  Take this quote for example:
 

Argent

Shallan has this awesome Memory thing going on, Jasnah has this geolocation thing, Kaladin is a really good fighter - are those just their traits, or is there something supernatural going on?

Brandon Sanderson

There is something supernatural about those. Each Order... Well, how about this. If you look at scholars' interpretations, there are some scholars who think that these things are not supernatural, and some who think that they are. But, if you look, many Lightweavers had powerful mnemonic abilities.

Argent

So it's definitely tied to the Orders?

Brandon Sanderson

It's tied to the Orders. Now, I am not going to say that you've got them all 100% correct, but each Order, there are things that come with Order, things that do not add up from simple the "you get this power plus this power," there is something else going on. And I would say that for Windrunners, watch the number of squires and the power of the squires... these are abnormal for the Windrunners.

Argent

And each Order's squires are somehow different from the other Orders'?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeeeaaaa... some Orders do not have them.

Argent

But some have more?

Brandon Sanderson

Yea.

 

(source)

 

If a squire is "somebody on the path of becoming a Radiant" like you are arguing then it would be really hard for some Orders to exist, don't you think?

[Arook he/him]

Sorry I was wrong thank you for the information. It is spiritual. The bond between Syl does have a distance factor though.

 

 

As for my statement about squires I meant Historically who also for the most part did not fight in the battles. I was not referring to anything in the book.

 

Does it take time Kaladin did not know how to suck in storm light he did it on instinct Lopen does. second The level of the bond increases a persons effectiveness at holding storm light from ideal 2 to 3 it increases dramatically. I don't think Lopen was holding a brom when he did it so it was probably a very small amount and almost certainly not freshly infused but it could have been.

 

@Weiry

 

 

No i can't see any reason for Lightweaves or Bondsmiths to have squires but then if your guys theory is right maybe Bondsmith have lots  of squires because they have so few members. 

 

 

Any way we will just have to wait and see what the next book says on the subject.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Arook

[bedmonds]

It might have distance factors, if you remember when Kaladin first started teaching the Bridge Four to fight he sent Syl off with Rock, Lopen, Dabbid, and Shen. With how large the chasms are that could be to quite a distance

[Arook he/him]

I recently reread WoR and I was wrong on when Lopen starts using storm light my theory was based on when Dalinar talked with the storm father. He did not talk with the storm father until about a week after the battle. Lopen started glowing long before that on the next morning following Kaladin saying the third oath.

[DreamEternal]

Shallan can attach illusions to pattern. I assume that if Lightweavers had squires they could do the same to them.

[Arondell]

Shallan can attach illusions to pattern. I assume that if Lightweavers had squires they could do the same to them.

That assumes squires have access to the surges.  So far we have only seen squires use the effects that simply breathing stormlight grants.

[natc]

That assumes squires have access to the surges. So far we have only seen squires use the effects that simply breathing stormlight grants.

He's talking about sticking the illusion to the squire, I think.

[Arook he/him]

He's talking about sticking the illusion to the squire, I think.

she may be able to stick an illusion to anyone holding storm light.