Silver does it mess with spiritual connections across all worlds

[Arook he/him]

So today will reading a WoB about Electrum and Jak's ability I had a thought. Does silver have a special use in the Cosmere that I had not noticed before.

 

So in Shadows for silence in the forests of hell silver is the main weapon against shades is silver. This stands out because in most of the Cosmere books silver is not widely used.

 

It is not a known Allowmantic metal. and we know they had it because they use it to make electrum also I believe that pewter is frequently found mixed with silver in a vein of ore. So what if silver disrupts or alters spiritual connections that is why it is not a base allowmantic metal and allows when mixed with gold to show the possible future spiritual connections that you will make. Gold just showing your possible self

 

The sheath Night blood is in, is referred to as silver.Night blood goes berserk almost over powering Vashers mind when drawn. In fact it undergoes a huge change in personality when drawn. I have always felt that the sheath dampens Nightblood.

 

 

This leads to one thought could a silver sword harm a spren that is manifesting in the physical realm maybe even killing it or just harming its connection with the spiritual realm.

 

Has anyone ever asked Brandon Sanderson about Silver in the cosmere. I know that there are some rules that all shards must follow maybe silvers connection is pre original shattering.

[MitchBade he/him]

If silver does negatively affect spren I wouldn't be surprised to see Odium's champion(s) wielding reverse-shardblades made of silver. Would be a serious nerf though.

[Voidus]

I think at one point tin was going to be silver since Brandon prefered the term 'Silvereye' but changed it when he found out pewter doesn't contain silver. So I doubt there's much Allomantically going on with it, other than that I'm not sure what other realmatic interactions it might have although between that and aluminium I think metals are likely to be pretty important across the cosmere.

[MitchBade he/him]

Yeah I think we can agree something is up with silver in the cosmere. It plays a role on at least 3 planets. Is there any mention of it in Elantris?

[Arook he/him]

Not that I remember elantrians didn't use anything they didn't just make with the power. They used gold currency. It's possible they could not make metals directly like wood and stone. But I can't remember if the box that the seon Is kept in is silver or not I don't think it was I think it was steel, silver is to soft

[restless he/him]

I think at one point tin was going to be silver since Brandon prefered the term 'Silvereye' but changed it when he found out pewter doesn't contain silver. So I doubt there's much Allomantically going on with it, other than that I'm not sure what other realmatic interactions it might have although between that and aluminium I think metals are likely to be pretty important across the cosmere.

ehm, how would he found out such thing?!

After all he is Creating the book, so its up to his decision, not about "finding out"

[natc]

ehm, how would he found out such thing?!

After all he is Creating the book, so its up to his decision, not about "finding out"

Because that's what pewter actually is.

"Pewter is a malleable metal alloy, traditionally 85–99% tin, with the remainder consisting of copper, antimony, bismuth and sometimes, less commonly today, lead."

Says wikipedia. It also says silver is sometimes used, but probably not often, and when the material is 91% tin you can't really call it a silver alloy.

Edited April 30, 2015 by natc

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Brandon talks a little about the silver/tin thing in the TFE annotations:

 

 

One interesting aspect of the book that I haven’t mentioned yet comes with the metal of tin. Originally, tin wasn’t one of the Allomantic metals—I used silver instead. You see, I originally paired silver and pewter together, thinking that pewter had a significant amount of silver in it. Well, turns out that isn’t the case. (Remember, each set of paired metals is a metal and an alloy made from it.)

 

My false impression on the belief that pewter is a silver/lead alloy goes back to my childhood. I remember when I used to paint lead fantasy figures that I bought at the local hobby store. One of the employees told me that they would be going up in price because the manufacturers wanted the figures to be safer. They were going to cast them out of pewter instead of lead, because pewter is much less toxic. I asked what the difference between pewter and lead was, and the employee told me that pewter is has lead PLUS silver, and that’s why the figures cost more.

 

He meant tin, I guess. Either way, that’s stayed with me for quite a long time. I soundly resisted changing silver to tin during the first drafts of the book, even when I found out the truth. The problem is, I really liked the name “Silvereye” for those who burn silver/tin. It sounds far slicker than “Tineye.”

 

I eventually came around, however. Consistency in the magic system is more important than a single cool-sounding name. I blame Hobby Town in Lincoln Nebraska for my pains.

 

(source)

 

("Silvereye" is still stuck in his mind as well, he used it a couple of times in the upcoming Mistborn books without realizing it.  Peter yelled at him for it "It's been ten years Brandon get over it")

 

Also keep in mind that Allomantic pewter is 91% tin and 9% lead.

 

As for the rest of the stuff, I'm highly skeptical.  We don't technically have confirmation that Nightblood's sheath is actually made of silver, just that it is silver in color. I know there's a theory floating around that it is actually aluminum, which is actually confirmed to interact in interesting ways with Investiture.

 

I don't buy the fact that it being used as a component in electrum is evidence for it being special, there are plenty of metals that aren't base metals but are used in the alloys (like lead).

 

(Oh and silver is not mentioned in any significant way in Elantris, only as decoration or in reference to the skin of the Elantrians)

[Arook he/him]

I had not considered aluminum on account of the weight of the sword. I always thought it would need to be a heavier metal but aluminum is a light colored and could be mistaken for silver if aluminum is unknown which I'm sure it is there.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I had not considered aluminum on account of the weight of the sword. I always thought it would need to be a heavier metal but aluminum is a light colored and could be mistaken for silver if aluminum is unknown which I'm sure it is there.

 

Well the weight is magical in nature, Nightblood is unnaturally for the same (or rather the opposite) reason that shardblades are unnaturally light.  But even still most of the weight would be coming from Nightblood itself, not the sheath.  It's the sheath that is described as being silvery, Nightblood itself is black.

[Arook he/him]

The Book just calls it silver not silvery which is why i was basing that it could be silver. However if there is WoB that why people expect it to be lighter is because of the corrupt investiture makes it heavy then it almost has to be aluminum. I always figured that the reason was because of the metal sheath.  Most scabbards are not solid metal most are in fact leather or wood with metal ends. 

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I think we are talking at cross purposes vis a vis weight.  There is "Nightblood" and there is "Nightblood's sheath", the indication is that "Nightblood" is the thing that is unnaturally heavy, not "Nightblood's sheath".

 

Also here is the (paraphrased) WoB (there's a transcribed version coming eventually):

 

 

Q: Why are shardblades unnaturally light and Nightblood unnaturally heavy?
A: (I feel) he didn't really answer it directly, but basically it's because Nightblood is basically what Shardblades would be if they were "broken." It has to do why Nightblood leaks black smoke that falls down, as opposed to white mist that floats up, and things like this. They are built on the same principles, but in some ways opposites.

 

(source)

[Arook he/him]

I only say that because Vasher is the only one to hold Nightblood without his sheath everyone else is always holding it with the sheath so in most cases they are one and the same weight wise. At no point in the books has someone held Nightblood alone and talked about its weight.

 

The thing is that its never said that shard blades are unnaturally light that i can remember they talk about how easy it is to cut through things but he is wearing shard plate at the time. unless it says so in WoR and I don't remember I'm just starting my reread of it.

 

Depending on what he said exactly it could mean that so you may be right.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Okay here's the verbatim:
 

Herowannabe: I noticed that shardblades are unnaturally light but Nightblood is unnaturally heavy.
Brandon: That is correct.
Herowannabe: Care to expound on that?
Brandon: Nightblood is built around the same principles as shardblades, if shardblades were… broken.  I mean he is--  You’ll notice dark smoke that goes down rather than light smoke that goes up, and things like this.  So, yeah, they are built on the same principles but in some ways opposites.

 
Which I don't think sheds to much more light on the issue.
 
The main issue I have with what you are arguing is that when one talks about the weight of a sword and it's sheath, /most/ of that weight is coming from the sword, that's just logic.  Even with the sheath being made of metal most of the weight is still going to be coming from the blade.
 
And shardblades /are/ described as being lighter than people think they should be:
 

"I'm no fool," Moash said, holding the sword up, pointing it outward. A single gloryspren faded into existence near his head. "It's heavier than I expected."
 
"Really?" Yake said. "Everyone says they're light!"

"Those are people used to a regular sword," Zahel said. "If you've trained all of your life with a longsword, then pick up something that looks like it has two or three times as much steel to it, you expect it to weigh more. Not less."

[Arook he/him]

Your right it is most likely aluminum or some other form of investiture then not silver.

 

 

 

 
The main issue I have with what you are arguing is that when one talks about the weight of a sword and it's sheath, /most/ of that weight is coming from the sword, that's just logic.  Even with the sheath being made of metal most of the weight is still going to be coming from the blade.
 
 

 

Right but most sheaths are not solid metal that was all. We are not talking about most swords we are talking about Nightblood who in only fully drawn at the end of war breaker. 4 feet of metal is still 4 feet of metal, if the sheath was steel it would double Nightblood's weight. Aluminum adds very little weight for the amount of metal needed.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

To be clear I'm not trying to argue the sheath is made of aluminum, I just mentioned that it was a theory.  What I'm arguing is that the sheath isn't as important in discussing Nightblood's weight as you are making it.

 

Yes Nightblood's sheath is entirely made of metal instead of wood or leather.  Metal is also a far more rugged/durable material so it can provide the same function with less material.  I would strongly disagree with you about the sheath doubling Nightblood's weight as while it does stretch the same length they would be made of very different amounts of metal.  And as has been previously established Nightblood is unnaturally heavy, the sheath would not be contributing severely as you seem to be arguing.

[Arook he/him]

Fair enough

 

So based on a bayonet with a metal sheath. Nightbloods sheath would at about 1/3 again the weight of the steal used to make it. That was my basis for the extra weight. If Nightblood weighs 8 pounds its going to be 2.67 additional weight. But for all I know Nightblood weights 20lb and that has nothing to do with the weight of the steel. 

[Dellexe he/him]

Oh hey, my theory.

Well, it's not wholly my theory, I just think I was the first one to mention the possibility. Has someone actually drawn up a full thread about it? If not, I should get around to doing that.

-

Anyways, all the metals that interfere with Investiture are silver-grey in color (Aluminum, Nightblood's Sheath, the metal that stops ghosties, the things that dull Shardblade edges, Ralkalest on Sel, etc.). As Weiry said, Nightblood's sheath is only ever described as being silver in color, if I remember correctly.

-

Also, in regards to the sheath being called silver, Brandon has a history of calling objects one thing when they are actually something else. One example of this is wine on Roshar. We would not consider it wine, but the books call it wine because it is relatively similar. Same with the Rosharan seasons.

[Arook he/him]

Oh hey, my theory.

Well, it's not wholly my theory, I just think I was the first one to mention the possibility. Has someone actually drawn up a full thread about it? If not, I should get around to doing that.

-

Anyways, all the metals that interfere with Investiture are silver-grey in color (Aluminum, Nightblood's Sheath, the metal that stops ghosties, the things that dull Shardblade edges, Ralkalest on Sel, etc.). As Weiry said, Nightblood's sheath is only ever described as being silver in color, if I remember correctly.

-

Also, in regards to the sheath being called silver, Brandon has a history of calling objects one thing when they are actually something else. One example of this is wine on Roshar. We would not consider it wine, but the books call it wine because it is relatively similar. Same with the Rosharan seasons.

 

I do understand that the he does that but if you want to be tricky sometimes you change things up. Also I think even Vasher says that in the beginning of the book that its sheath is silver but, I admit he could have been talking about the color not the metal. Most metals are a metallic gray so it is hard to say. Polished metal is not easy to tell apart at a glance.

 

Edit: A thought occurred to me now that I have a better understanding of what the spiritual realm is. Aluminum messes with investiture on at least on one world for sure and if what I'm hearing is right there is WoB that is does so on others. So If investiture transcendence the all three realms. What if silver just lets you alter the connection to the spiritual realm where aluminum alters the connection to investiture. Think if you have 3 peices of cloth(physical cognitive spiritual) and a cup of water(investiture) to represent the Cosmere. Now lightly mist the whole first piece then pour 16 spots on the cloth. this is how I see the spiritual realm being. Then place the next cloth(cognitive) on the the first one some water will seep through but only in spots that is is concentrated. Next place the last cloth (physical) on the first 2. Some will still seep through and evaporate but not much. Does that make sense? For each broken shard it that spot with a hammer.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Arook