Alternate strategy to gemhearts: shardbearer rush

[king of nowhere]

There is an alternate approach to the gems that should be ffar more efficient that the strategy employed by the armies.

We have seen that what is normally done is send an army to the plateau and hold the ground while some try to open the crisalys with hammers. That takes time and generally the enemy army can also arrive and fight for the crisalys.

But we have also seen adolin open the crisalys with a few moves of the shardblade. And we know a shardbearer can run faster than any men.

So, if the goal is to take the gems, why not send a single shardbearer instead of an army? the shardbearer could run all the way, much faster than any army. he could jump most chasms, but if needed he could carry a pole like the scouts.

he would arrive before any enemy, take the gems in a few minutes, and run back with them. he'll be back in the camp before the enemy army can even reach the plateau. The only way to counter that would be to send another shardbearer against him, but I don't think anyone could compete with dalinar or adolin. So dalinar and adolin, by doing this, could have taken most of the gems by themselves.

[Inkthinker]

Mmmm... risky. If he doesn't beat the Parshendi, he'll face an army alone. If anything happens to him, absolutely invaluable resources are lost. He may also not be able to find the way alone without the scouts to lead the way, and if he's going full-out they cannot keep up. And the Parshendi have their own Shardbearers, so there's a real chance he could be defeated out there, alone, by someone of equal or greater power.

I could see someone trying it, but it sounds like a desperate move. Remember, the Alethi nobles are treating the Plains war as a game, a contest amongst themselves, and not like a real conflict where final victory is the goal.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Inkthinker

[Miyabi]

I agree with Ink, it's too risky unless the chrysalis was close enough to the Alethi side it was a guaranteed thing I don't see an Alethi risking it. They do however risk something similar when the Chasmfiend is close enough. i.e. the hunt they go on. I think essentially they would only do something like that if the Chasmfiend was close enough to make a parade out of the affair. I don't see them wanted to extend out too far and risk losing Shards.

[Nepene]

It would be an excellent strategy if the shardbearers could unite.

All of the shardbearers together could easily defeat any immediate opposition or escape from a Pashendi army. One on its own could easily be overwhelmed.

[Miyabi]

We've seen how well Alethi don't work together.

[Inkthinker]

It might be something we see discussed or even acted up on if Dalinar can force unity as the Highprince of War, but even so I don't see them giving up entirely on the use of troops, because there's only like... what, less than a dozen suits of Plate and/or Blades amongst everyone combined? Not much of a force, especially if (as suspected) the Parshendi have access to much more in the way of Shardplate or Blades and just haven't been using 'em yet.

[happyman]

You don't use your queen to take a pawn if it puts them directly into the sights of an enemy bishop unless you have a plan to turn a loss into a stalemate in the endgame.

[king of nowhere]

I don't see how that could be dangerous to the shardbearer. thanks to his high mobility he will arrive there much faster than the enemy army, but even if he find the enemy army there, he will spot it in time to turn back and run away. And if the enemy went to the plateau that fast, it means that they would have gotten the gem out before the army could arrive anyway, so nothing is lost. The only danger could be posed by enemy shardbearers applying the same tactic.

That's why I'm suggesting adolin and gavilar do it. They are two extremely skilled shardbearers, and I don't think the parshendi can have that many shards. They should be able to disengage even against several parshendi sharbearers.

Not every undefended pawn you can take with your queen is a trap. Sometimes it's just a pawn you can gain.

[happyman]

I don't see how that could be dangerous to the shardbearer. thanks to his high mobility he will arrive there much faster than the enemy army, but even if he find the enemy army there, he will spot it in time to turn back and run away. And if the enemy went to the plateau that fast, it means that they would have gotten the gem out before the army could arrive anyway, so nothing is lost. The only danger could be posed by enemy shardbearers applying the same tactic.

That's why I'm suggesting adolin and gavilar do it. They are two extremely skilled shardbearers, and I don't think the parshendi can have that many shards. They should be able to disengage even against several parshendi sharbearers.

Not every undefended pawn you can take with your queen is a trap. Sometimes it's just a pawn you can gain.

I bolded the line in your quote because that is the very big, very real danger people are objecting to.

I would add that the Alethi high-princes seem to be rather self-centered. Putting Shard-bearers at stake may be the best way for the army (although I doubt it; the cost of losing Shards to the Parshendi is very high; unlike chess, any shards the Parshendi take can be used against the Alethi later), but I don't see any besides Adolin and Galivar even being willing to consider it.

[lDanielHolm]

That is not the only danger. If a single Shardbearer is caught without a force backing him up, he will be rushed and likely killed. He cannot guarantee that he won't be caught by the Parshendi before he has freed the gemheart and escaped with it, and even a Shardbearer can face overwhelming odds.

It's not like he only has to run up there and say "Tagged! You lose." He has to cut it free. While it may be much faster for him than for a regular squad of soldiers (be they Alethi or Parshendi), it will take up his attention, and if the Parshendi are close by, he'll likely be surrounded before he has a chance to go anywhere. He could go only for sure wins--abandoning the gemheart if there's even a hint of the Parshendi closing in--but doing that would probably lose more gemhearts than throwing an army at it would. Both the Alethi and the Parshendi are fast enough at crossing the Plains that almost every pupating chasmfiend results in a battle.

Not to mention that he would be tired from running and leaping chasms, which is not a good position to be in when you are a lone warrior against an army, even for a full Shardbearer.

By the way, you seem to be confusing Dalinar and Gavilar.

Edited December 3, 2012 by lDanielHolm

[Inkthinker]

Again, I won't be surprised at all if something like this happens in Book 2... though the reason might be to beat the other Highprinces as much as the Parshendi.

Someone hotheaded, young and foolish (Adolin or possibly a newly-suited, hot-to-prove-himself Renarin) decides he can pull off this very trick and races onto the Plains to get a gemheart single-handedly. Dalinar sends Kaladin and the B4s to back him up or bring him back if they can (they can't run as fast across the tops, but they know the valleys). They all get caught out there by either another solo Shardbearer or a troop of Parshendi. Maybe even in that order, because it would prove that the Parshendi are (for whatever reason) specifically matching force-for-force, even when it's not strategically advantageous to do so.

That's all supposition, but I could see it happening.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Inkthinker

[Nogzio]

One other thing to pay attention to is that not every gap between plateaus is possible to be simply jumped by a shardbearer. For instance the gaps around the tower are too big to be jumped. If a shardbearer was running from the Parshendi and got trapped and was unable to jump to the next plateau he would be surrounded and killed for his shards.

[happyman]

One other thing to pay attention to is that not every gap between plateaus is possible to be simply jumped by a shardbearer. For instance the gaps around the tower are too big to be jumped. If a shardbearer was running from the Parshendi and got trapped and was unable to jump to the next plateau he would be surrounded and killed for his shards.

This is a good tactical point, especially if the Parshendi have a better knowledge of the shattered plains.

[hoser]

I think it has potential. It hasn't been done because the Alethi don't work together AND it isn't either party's real goal. They need the gemhearts, but the Alethi are also using the battles as a form of attrition. The Parshendi leader appears to be trying to engineer some sort of battlefield confrontation with Dalinar.

If the Alethi wanted to Shardbearer rush, they already have the scouts in place. Yes, Shardbearers are faster than scouts, but with a little planning a chain or web of scouts could be set up to guard against traps. They could have an abort signal to keep the Shardbearers out of ambushes or tell them when to retreat.