Charononus Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 TLR is insanely invested, used to resisting mind control, is not guaranteed to be considered evil and even if all that were true there's no reason to think Nightblood would be able to actually kill him, maybe it could just keep him standing there stabbing himself in the stomach all day but to do this Vasher would have to be giving one of the most powerful people in the cosmere one of the most powerful weapons in the cosmere, if things went wrong they would go really wrong. At the time we meet him, I thought it was pretty well hinted at that he was broken down by ruin. I don't think he ever did a good job of resisting. In fact I'd rate his resistance as pitiful. Yes he took the power of the well, but he also created the Koloss, Kandra, and inquisitors. He made all the tools that Ruin wanted. Ruin was just playing the long game, he was playing the lord ruler like a chess piece 1000 years worth of moves ahead.
Voidus Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 At the time we meet him, I thought it was pretty well hinted at that he was broken down by ruin. I don't think he ever did a good job of resisting. In fact I'd rate his resistance as pitiful. Yes he took the power of the well, but he also created the Koloss, Kandra, and inquisitors. He made all the tools that Ruin wanted. Ruin was just playing the long game, he was playing the lord ruler like a chess piece 1000 years worth of moves ahead. Nightblood isn't a Shard though. And he learned how to make the Koloss, Kandra and Inquisitors by using the well so that was well (Heh) before Ruin had him in his grasp, and rightly so, as the fact that he knew this and prepared the Kandra ahead of time is the main reason that Ruin didn't succeed, the Kandra were all able to kill themselves and deprive Ruin of something he though he could use.
Charononus Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Nightblood isn't a Shard though. And he learned how to make the Koloss, Kandra and Inquisitors by using the well so that was well (Heh) before Ruin had him in his grasp, and rightly so, as the fact that he knew this and prepared the Kandra ahead of time is the main reason that Ruin didn't succeed, the Kandra were all able to kill themselves and deprive Ruin of something he though he could use. See I took it a little differently. He learned it at the same time, but I don't think he learned it from the power of preservation. Hemalurgy is Ruin's power after all, and Ruin was imprisoned at the well.
CthulhuSpren Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 I saw a WoB, somewhere, that Nightblood, when powered with investiture and unsheathed, destroys whatever it strikes in all three realms. Would compounding gold be able to come back from that? Still voted for TLR though
Voidus Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 I saw a WoB, somewhere, that Nightblood, when powered with investiture and unsheathed, destroys whatever it strikes in all three realms. Would compounding gold be able to come back from that? Still voted for TLR though It can heal from spritual damage at the least, on the cognitive aspect I'm less sure but I suspect it still could.
CthulhuSpren Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 I can't seem to find any WoB -though my search wasn't too extensive- regarding Nightblood destroying on all three realms, but I remember seeing it somewhere....
Cruxer he/him Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Can I just add, that we don't know that allomancy won't affect nightblood, who is in fact made of metal. But if Vasher were to bring a shard blade, which we know he's a master of the use of, no contest. Besides, while TLR is a master of his powers, Vasher is a master of survival.
natc Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 If just a charged metalmind already causes a noticeable change in susceptibility to pushes for experienced coinshots like Wax, then I have no doubt Nightblood, an artificial shardblade holding 1000 Breaths, is probably really resistant to allomancy.
Stormgate he/him Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Good point, forgot Awakening becomes ranged. By the tenth heightening could he simply awaken everything LTR is wearing with the command to constrict (or something similar) and thus effectively detain/kill him? Two words: Remove metalminds. Vasher can do more complicated Commands, and we know that removal of metalminds nearly kills TLR. Also, TLR is likely not pure, so he would be attracted to Nightblood. Though he would last for a while, if Vasher was fast enough to stay away from TLR, TLR and all surrounding Inquisitors would die. I saw a WoB, somewhere, that Nightblood, when powered with investiture and unsheathed, destroys whatever it strikes in all three realms. Would compounding gold be able to come back from that? Still voted for TLR though If you are scratched by Nightblood, you immediately become black smoke. I'm sorry, but nobody can compound fast enough to heal from total, immediate annihilation. Basically, Nightblood wins. Edited November 6, 2015 by Stormgate
Stormgate he/him Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 I think you mean the word "wonderful".You, sir, would likely die within a few minutes of picking up Nightblood.
Voidus Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Two words: Remove metalminds. Vasher can do more complicated Commands, and we know that removal of metalminds nearly kills TLR. Also, TLR is likely not pure, so he would be attracted to Nightblood. Though he would last for a while, if Vasher was fast enough to stay away from TLR, TLR and all surrounding Inquisitors would die. If you are scratched by Nightblood, you immediately become black smoke. I'm sorry, but nobody can compound fast enough to heal from total, immediate annihilation. Basically, Nightblood wins. Remove them with what? His metalminds are both Hemalurgic and feruchemic stores and so resistant to most investiture, using anything else has the same problems as just trying to grab them off, TLR has compounded speed, pewter and allomancy, no way is anyone removing them without affecting them directly. Copper provides resistance to mental manipulation, it could very well work on Nightblood too, plus there's no way that Vasher can be fast enough to stay away from TLR, he can move nigh-infinitely fast when he wants to. Giving Nightblood to TLR is just levels of insane beyond any other plan, you're not only trying to use metal on an Allomancer, you're taking the most powerful weapon in the known cosmere and giving it to one of the most powerful people in the cosmere and just hoping that things end in an advantageous way. He's healed from beheadings, flaying and being burned alive, Stormlight has healed people from death and Shardblade wounds, Miles healed from completely blowing himself up or taking a shotgun to the face, we really have no evidence that there's any limitation to it whatsoever. Edited November 6, 2015 by Voidus
Stormgate he/him Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) Remove them with what? His metalminds are both Hemalurgic and feruchemic stores and so resistant to most investiture, using anything else has the same problems as just trying to grab them off, TLR has compounded speed, pewter and allomancy, no way is anyone removing them without affecting them directly. Copper provides resistance to mental manipulation, it could very well work on Nightblood too, plus there's no way that Vasher can be fast enough to stay away from TLR, he can move nigh-infinitely fast when he wants to. Giving Nightblood to TLR is just levels of insane beyond any other plan, you're not only trying to use metal on an Allomancer, you're taking the most powerful weapon in the known cosmere and giving it to one of the most powerful people in the cosmere and just hoping that things end in an advantageous way. He's healed from beheadings, flaying and being burned alive, Stormlight has healed people from death and Shardblade wounds, Miles healed from completely blowing himself up or taking a shotgun to the face, we really have no evidence that there's any limitation to it whatsoever. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I pictured TLR's robes attacking him, ripping off his metalminds. Edited November 6, 2015 by Stormgate
Voidus Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 I apologize for the misunderstanding. I pictured TLR's robes attacking him, ripping off his metalminds. They're embedded into his flesh and circle his arms, you'd need a significant amount of force to rip them off, even with the help of the mists Vin had to pull quite a bit to rip them out, Vasher would also need to know TLRs weakness (Which seems unlikely) know that they're the bracers (Which is nigh-impossible) and get close enough to pull off this plan without the Inquisitors or TLR himself noticing (Which is probably completely impossible) In that one very specific scenario he might be able to win, TLR wins pretty much every conceivable other fight though. I think his best bet would be that if he knew about the bracers to try to hit them with Nightblood, that'd probably drain them at the very least and probably straight up destroy them, but he'd need to hope that TLR didn't just backhand him and send him flying all the way back to Nalthis. This post was a mistake, caused by Internet lag. If you're on a computer rather than mobile there should be a 'hide' button next to the edit button, that's what I use when I accidentally double post. 1
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) ... Vasher would also need to know TLRs weakness (Which seems unlikely) know that they're the bracers ... The seventh heightening grants the ability to see how much Breaths are inside an object, it's not hard to imagine extending that to other forms of investiture. TLR's bracers are both metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes, and on top of that are made of the body of a Shard, they should be blinding if you can see investiture. It' not a big leap from that to Vasher realizing that it's probably a good idea to get them away from the guy trying to steelpush Nightblood. Edit: Of course, this is only of Vasher has enough Breath to reach the seventh heightening. Edited November 6, 2015 by EagleOfTheForestPath
Voidus Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 The seventh heightening grants the ability to see how much Breaths are inside an object, it's not hard to imagine extending that to other forms of investiture. TLR's bracers are both metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes, and on top of that are made of the body of a Shard, they should be blinding if you can see investiture. It' not a big leap from that to Vasher realizing that it's probably a good idea to get them away from the guy trying to steelpush Nightblood. Edit: Of course, this is only of Vasher has enough Breath to reach the seventh heightening. Every piece of metal he wears is likely similarly invested, indeed given bloods ability to block certain methods of detection (Iron and Steel lines notably) it'd probably appear less invested than his other metalminds are.
Charononus Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 You, sir, would likely die within a few minutes of picking up Nightblood. I don't know. I think in the end the creation of Nightblood will go down as one of the most wonderous things in the cosmere. Nightblood is a terrible weapon, but something tells me that it might save everyone. He's healed from beheadings, flaying and being burned alive, Stormlight has healed people from death and Shardblade wounds, Miles healed from completely blowing himself up or taking a shotgun to the face, we really have no evidence that there's any limitation to it whatsoever. If Nightblood does destroy on all 3 planes as mentioned, it's far more severe than anything else. Beheading, flaying and burning alive are all physical plane activities, the cognitive and spiritual are still there to provide a base from which regrowth can happen. Shardblades don't cut the physical if you are alive but instead cut the spiritual, leaving the cognitive and physical as a base for regrowth. Regrowth after all three are blasted seems to be like trying to multiple by 0. It's still going to come out zero. 1
Voidus Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 I don't know. I think in the end the creation of Nightblood will go down as one of the most wonderous things in the cosmere. Nightblood is a terrible weapon, but something tells me that it might save everyone. If Nightblood does destroy on all 3 planes as mentioned, it's far more severe than anything else. Beheading, flaying and burning alive are all physical plane activities, the cognitive and spiritual are still there to provide a base from which regrowth can happen. Shardblades don't cut the physical if you are alive but instead cut the spiritual, leaving the cognitive and physical as a base for regrowth. Regrowth after all three are blasted seems to be like trying to multiple by 0. It's still going to come out zero. It can also heal from Hemalurgy, it can definitely heal at the very least spiritual wounds too. So regular Shardblade? No problem. Nightblood? Potentially a problem but not a guarantee. And if you're wrong then you've basically just destroyed the entire cosmere because TLR now has Nightblood. Not sure that Vasher would take that bet.
Charononus Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 It can also heal from Hemalurgy, it can definitely heal at the very least spiritual wounds too. So regular Shardblade? No problem. Nightblood? Potentially a problem but not a guarantee. And if you're wrong then you've basically just destroyed the entire cosmere because TLR now has Nightblood. Not sure that Vasher would take that bet. What's left to start the healing? Physical is gone, cognitive is gone, spiritual is gone. Night blood is a superweapon, countering it is probably impossible. It's almost as bad as balefire in wot. It erases things from existence, there is nothing to heal because it's all gone. Speaking of it when unsheathed of course.
WayneSpren he/him Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 To me this topic seems ridiculous. TLR would win. That's that. ...unless the Plottwistspren enter the fray.
Stormgate he/him Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 To me this topic seems ridiculous. TLR would win. That's that. ...unless the Plottwistspren enter the fray. Unless we somehow all bonded idiotspren, anything that covers 6+ pages of forum posts is up for debate. This excludes politics, as bonding idiotspren seems to be a job requirement.
Charononus Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Unless we somehow all bonded idiotspren, anything that covers 6+ pages of forum posts is up for debate. This excludes politics, as bonding idiotspren seems to be a job requirement. Voidbringers all of them.
Voidus Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 What's left to start the healing? Physical is gone, cognitive is gone, spiritual is gone. Night blood is a superweapon, countering it is probably impossible. It's almost as bad as balefire in wot. It erases things from existence, there is nothing to heal because it's all gone. Speaking of it when unsheathed of course. It's not instantaneouss plus against someone as invested as TLR it's not guaranteed to even be able to damage him on all three realms. And again this is assuming he can manage to even stab TLR in the first place. And that TLR doesn't simply burn Nightblood.
Stormgate he/him Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 It's not instantaneouss plus against someone as invested as TLR it's not guaranteed to even be able to damage him on all three realms. And again this is assuming he can manage to even stab TLR in the first place. And that TLR doesn't simply burn Nightblood. Unfortunately, BS has RAFO'ed what would happen if someone burned invested metal. Also, I saw nothing in Warbreaker that would indicate that death by Nightblood cut is anything less than instantaneous. Is there a WoB about that, or did I miss something when I was reading it?
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