Duel to the Death: The Lord Ruler or Vasher?

[Voidus]

I disagree with enough compounded gold being able to heal spiritual damage. Though, we have seen instances of spiritual wounds being healed, so I'm not sure which would happen.

Not sure if it needs any particular tricks to work but Brandons definitely stated that it's possible.

 

KURKISTAN ()

Does a limb that has been "severed" by a Shardblade have any Hemalurgic bindpoints? If the same limb was then cut off more conventionally, would a Bloodmaker ferring be able to grow it back?

BRANDON SANDERSON

A severed Shardblade limb needs repair to the soul before it would function again. A Bloodmaker would be able to heal it without needing to grow it back.

[Zaineph]

Even worse for Vasher, this is all assuming the Lord Ruler does not use atium, in which case, he will always win. He will see what Nightblood is, the extreme damage it can cause, and will keep his distance. No throw Vasher makes will ever hit, and then the Lord Ruler has an Inquisitor pick up Nightblood instead of himself, and proceeds to lock it very deep within Kredik Shaw.

 

I pretty much agree that TLR would win, want to do some more research but I just wanted to challenge this particular point:

 

I think there it says somewhere in the Words of Brandon that an aluminium spear wouldn't leave an atium shadow. Now I know that Nightblood is made of steel so this doesn't quite work but Brandon also confirmed that he is essentially the same thing as a shardblade. (Also in WoB). Now we know there are things that don't cause an atium shadow, and I'm taking a bit of a leap here, but I don't think a shardblade would create an atium shadow either. Which would make it interesting to see if Nightblood would create one.

 

I realise I'm make a couple of assumtions but does anyone remember an invested object causing, or not causing an atium shadow?

 

Also on the subject of Nightblood, the coppermind states:

 

"Those it defines as "evil" feel drawn to possess it, once an "evil" person picks Nightblood up, the sword amplifies the wielder's bloodlust causing him or her to slaughter anyone nearby and then commit suicide with the blade."

 

I think most of us can agree that Nightblood would define TLR as "evil", so it depends on whether or not TLR can resist it's pull during or after the fight.  

 

Regardless let's say TLR does pick up Nightblood, considering the amount of investiture that he holds, the devestation would be immense. (Probably more than anything we've seen so far in cosmere).

[Voidus]

I pretty much agree that TLR would win, want to do some more research but I just wanted to challenge this particular point:

 

I think there it says somewhere in the Words of Brandon that an aluminium spear wouldn't leave an atium shadow. Now I know that Nightblood is made of steel so this doesn't quite work but Brandon also confirmed that he is essentially the same thing as a shardblade. (Also in WoB). Now we know there are things that don't cause an atium shadow, and I'm taking a bit of a leap here, but I don't think a shardblade would create an atium shadow either. Which would make it interesting to see if Nightblood would create one.

 

I realise I'm make a couple of assumtions but does anyone remember an invested object causing, or not causing an atium shadow?

 

Also on the subject of Nightblood, the coppermind states:

 

"Those it defines as "evil" feel drawn to possess it, once an "evil" person picks Nightblood up, the sword amplifies the wielder's bloodlust causing him or her to slaughter anyone nearby and then commit suicide with the blade."

 

I think most of us can agree that Nightblood would define TLR as "evil", so it depends on whether or not TLR can resist it's pull during or after the fight.  

 

Regardless let's say TLR does pick up Nightblood, considering the amount of investiture that he holds, the devestation would be immense. (Probably more than anything we've seen so far in cosmere).

Hemalurgic beings frequently have been shown to have Atium shadows still, technically all Allomancers are Invested, Elend was able to see through the actions of Shards themselves when he Duralumin burned it. I think it's safe to say that it's a unique property of Aluminium and not to do with Investiture.

[Fallen Rope]

Regardless let's say TLR does pick up Nightblood, considering the amount of investiture that he holds, the devestation would be immense. (Probably more than anything we've seen so far in cosmere).

I don't think TLR has much investiture, metalminds and the rest of the metalic arts are low investiture. All of his metalminds together are likely lower than 2nd hightening, even it is more, Susebron or Kaladin after the 3rd oath are likely higher.

[Voidus]

I don't think TLR has much investiture, metalminds and the rest of the metalic arts are low investiture. All of his metalminds together are likely lower than 2nd hightening, even it is more, Susebron or Kaladin after the 3rd oath are likely higher.

I'd say that compounded metalminds are probably the exception, comparing effects: Feruchemical gold is a much faster healer than anything else we know of and it doesn't seem to need an abundance of metal to be held to provide virtually unlimited healing. Comparing it to a divine breaths ability to heal would put a goldmind at the fifth heightening.

Susebron is probably higher but Kaladin has no intrinsic Investiture, and I don't think he could find enough Stormlight to be a match for TLR. Which is not even getting into the fact that TLR is a Sliver.

[natc]

Yeah, TLR will be fine. He might not hold much Investiture at once without overtaxing his metalminds, but unlike the others replenishing is pretty much a piece of cake.

[Emerald101]

I pretty much agree that TLR would win, want to do some more research but I just wanted to challenge this particular point:

 

I think there it says somewhere in the Words of Brandon that an aluminium spear wouldn't leave an atium shadow. Now I know that Nightblood is made of steel so this doesn't quite work but Brandon also confirmed that he is essentially the same thing as a shardblade. (Also in WoB). Now we know there are things that don't cause an atium shadow, and I'm taking a bit of a leap here, but I don't think a shardblade would create an atium shadow either. Which would make it interesting to see if Nightblood would create one.

 

 

just a little note on this: shardblades are more comparable to lerasium (and presumably, atium) than aluminum, as per this WoB

 

Edit: It's #16 on the list. Can someone tell me how to link WoB's so they're right there?

Edited April 30, 2015 by Emerald101

[Voidus]

just a little note on this: shardblades are more comparable to lerasium (and presumably, atium) than aluminum, as per this WoB

 

Edit: It's #16 on the list. Can someone tell me how to link WoB's so they're right there?

You need the actual signings link, then #number at the end where number is whatever the number of the question is.

So for this it would be: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1047#12

[Steel Compounder]

He has compounded Gold...

[Emerald101]

You need the actual signings link, then #number at the end where number is whatever the number of the question is.

So for this it would be: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1047#12

 

thanks

[WindrunnerRadiant]

Umm... most of you are forgetting Vasher's extreme skill with Awakening. Just saying, but if he retrieved his Breath from Susebron... Also, lets not forget that they both have some insane troops they could command. A one on one, I say Vasher. Enough Breaths to keep the Lord Ruler's attacks from reaching him and get him close, and he kills TLR with Nightblood. Actually, he might not even need all of his Breaths from Susebron. Just enough to do what he needs to. A few well placed lifeless squirrels as a distraction and a good couple of commands on his clothes and he could easily get close enough to use Nightblood (I would guess he would need more Breath than he had at any point during Warbreaker though). I guess it would come down to whether or not compounding gold will really help all that much when faced with Nightblood. 

[natc]

Imagine actually getting close to the Lord Ruler period. The guy with near limitless mental and physical speed, absurd superhuman strength, can shrug off being impaled. He'd walk right through the army and just snap your neck with a punch if he tried.

[Voidus]

Imagine actually getting close to the Lord Ruler period. The guy with near limitless mental and physical speed, absurd superhuman strength, can shrug off being impaled. He'd walk right through the army and just snap your neck with a punch if he tried.

Or just collapse his entire palace on top of you then punch his way out and leave you in the ruins.

[natc]

I'm now imagining this.

The Lord Ruler will speed up, walk out of the army meant to distract him, go make and eat dinner, come back to sit in his swivel chair, slow down and spin for a while reading. At this point army blown away by sonic boom.

Then TLR gets up after remembering the fight, getting back up to speed, casually run at the speed of sound over to Vasher who had just realized he disappeared and is awakening things in case of counterattack. TLR grabs Nightblood by the grip, flips it around, taps pewtermind and burns pewter, punches it into Vasher's chest at ultrasonic speeds, decelerate and watch everything blown away by the sonic boom again.

Bonus points for "What, you didn't see that coming?"

Honestly with just speed alone he can do so much when he can just tap for ages nonstop. He doesn't even need to go beyond that to kill most people in these vs polls. He can literally just walk off to grab a chunk of steel to eat and compound if he gets low and come back. Throwing strength into it too with that much momentum is overkill.

[Voidus]

Plus he can even move glass with his unenhanced pushes.

If TLR ever used Duralumin I think the universe would explode.

[Redbird]

I'm now imagining this.

The Lord Ruler will speed up, walk out of the army meant to distract him, go make and eat dinner, come back to sit in his swivel chair, slow down and spin for a while reading. At this point army blown away by sonic boom.

Then TLR gets up after remembering the fight, getting back up to speed, casually run at the speed of sound over to Vasher who had just realized he disappeared and is awakening things in case of counterattack. TLR grabs Nightblood by the grip, flips it around, taps pewtermind and burns pewter, punches it into Vasher's chest at ultrasonic speeds, decelerate and watch everything blown away by the sonic boom again.

Bonus points for "What, you didn't see that coming?"

Honestly with just speed alone he can do so much when he can just tap for ages nonstop. He doesn't even need to go beyond that to kill most people in these vs polls. He can literally just walk off to grab a chunk of steel to eat and compound if he gets low and come back. Throwing strength into it too with that much momentum is overkill.

Even though there is a limit to compounding steel before you start to take damage, he could just compound gold, so his speed is basically limitless.

[natc]

His clothes would be blown off, but hey he's probably pretty buff considering.

[Turos]

Glass? When? Do you mean the stained glass windows? There is lead framing between the different pieces on those. I guess silicone is a metalloid, but I'm not sure if allomancy can affect metalloid elements.

Any feruchemy has a limit on how much can be stored at once per trait. Brandon has also mentioned that physical speed can only boost you so fast. Compounding converts feruchemy stores into new allomantic metals, so duralumin could definitely boost it. I wonder if going full blast with duralumin and flaring wouldn't have bad side effects. If feruchemy has limits, it can't be healthy.

Edit: I reply too slow on my phone. People sneaking in more comments before I submit it.

Compounded gold might heal the body, but I haven't seen confirmation yet that gold heals spirit. My opinion is that pushing limits on magic would damage more than your body.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Turos

[Voidus]

It's colored glass but it's pieces on the floor so it wouldn't still be covered in lead.

 

 

Compounded gold might heal the body, but I haven't seen confirmation yet that gold heals spirit. My opinion is that pushing limits on magic would damage more than your body.

I did already post it but here it is again:
 

 

 

KURKISTAN ()

Does a limb that has been "severed" by a Shardblade have any Hemalurgic bindpoints? If the same limb was then cut off more conventionally, would a Bloodmaker ferring be able to grow it back?

BRANDON SANDERSON

A severed Shardblade limb needs repair to the soul before it would function again. A Bloodmaker would be able to heal it without needing to grow it back.

 

Edited May 27, 2015 by Voidus

[Redbird]

Glass? When? Do you mean the stained glass windows? There is lead framing between the different pieces on those. I guess silicone is a metalloid, but I'm not sure if allomancy can affect metalloid elements.

Any feruchemy has a limit on how much can be stored at once per trait. Brandon has also mentioned that physical speed can only boost you so fast. Compounding converts feruchemy stores into new allomantic metals, so duralumin could definitely boost it. I wonder if going full blast with duralumin and flaring wouldn't have bad side effects. If feruchemy has limits, it can't be healthy.

Edit: I reply too slow on my phone. People sneaking in more comments before I submit it.

Compounded gold might heal the body, but I haven't seen confirmation yet that gold heals spirit. My opinion is that pushing limits on magic would damage more than your body.

Feruchemy has no limit on tapping actually, the "upper limits" are when they start to damage the user, but TLR can heal that so it's no problem.

[Turos]

Aha. I need to pay more attention to stuff like that about the glass. Hmm.

About that quote, I understand it differently. I'll post my take on it in a bit.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Turos

[Turos]

KURKISTAN ()

Does a limb that has been "severed" by a Shardblade have any Hemalurgic bindpoints? If the same limb was then cut off more conventionally, would a Bloodmaker ferring be able to grow it back?

BRANDON SANDERSON

A severed Shardblade limb needs repair to the soul before it would function again. A Bloodmaker would be able to heal it without needing to grow it back.

I see this as two separate answers. One says the soul needs to be repaired. The other is that a severed arm can be reattached.

I'm not saying it wouldn't heal the soul, just that he didn't actually say that the reattached arm would work without further spiritual healing. I don't know if Brandon was evading the question behind the questions, but we might need to get a more direct question, like "Can a bloodmaker heal the arm spiritually?"

[WindrunnerRadiant]

Vasher with enough Breaths would be at least as invincible as TLR if not more so. And Nightblood's cuts are reportedly FAR more devastating than a conventional Roshar shardblade. Being impaled with it might even allow it to absorb the investiture and eventually soul of the person it's impaling and then turning them into smoke (just a theory but based on what we know about Nightblood it isn't unreasonable to believe). Not even TLR would survive that no matter what his other capabilities are.

[Emerald101]

Vasher with enough Breaths would be at least as invincible as TLR if not more so. According to this coppermind page, no heightening grants any kind of immortality/healing benefit besides agelessness and immunity from diseases, whereas compounded gold is known to provide almost limitless healing (and for someone with fewer resources to accumulate gold with).

 

And Nightblood's cuts are reportedly FAR more devastating than a conventional Roshar shardblade. Being impaled with it might even allow it to absorb theinvestiture and eventually soul of the person it's impaling and then turning them into smoke (just a theory but based on what we know about Nightblood it isn't unreasonable to believe).

 

Not even TLR would survive that no matter what his other capabilities are. Vasher would have to actually manage to get close enough to hit him with it.

Responses in green.

 

Edit: punctuation, and forgot to actually put the link for the coppermind page. *facepalm* 

Edited May 27, 2015 by Emerald101

[Voidus]

I see this as two separate answers. One says the soul needs to be repaired. The other is that a severed arm can be reattached.

I'm not saying it wouldn't heal the soul, just that he didn't actually say that the reattached arm would work without further spiritual healing. I don't know if Brandon was evading the question behind the questions, but we might need to get a more direct question, like "Can a bloodmaker heal the arm spiritually?"

 

 

KURKISTAN (GOODREADS)

Could Miles heal back his Allomancy if it was spiked out of him?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, he could not. He would no longer be an Allomancer. Also, he'd probably be dead.

KURKISTAN

I'd thought maybe he could just do some super-tapping from his existing Health in his goldminds (since he'd still have his Feruchemy)...

BRANDON SANDERSON

Oh, I see what you're asking. Using Feruchemy to heal the removed portion of soul. That's actually plausible, not so different from healing other kinds of soul-wounds. If he survived, then yes, this actually might work. (That's why I get for reading the questions so quickly.)

That do you then? I disagree that he was addressing the points separately but I think this should pretty much clinch it regardless.