about the cyclic nature of time and the fact that it is is linked to our

[king of nowhere]

we kknow time is cyclic, that every age is repeated forever and ever. that is repeated all the time throughout the series.

we also know that our world is part of the remote past of the wot world, before the age of legends. stories of merk and mosk fighting with spears of fire, of lenn flying to the moon in the belly of an eagle of fire, queen elsbet who ruled all the world, and there is even a mercedes logo displayed in the panarch's place in tarabon.

That means, since time is cyclic, that this world must also be our past. What that implies for the pattern of the ages? We know pretty well our past. We have soldi evidence for the formation of the earth from molten rock, and are sure of the big bang, even if we may be wrong on some details.

This mean that randland must be in our past before that.

I can only think of two explanations for it:

one is that at some point the whole universe is destroied, then started anew. that would mean the age sequence takes VERY long to repeat itself.

I don't think that is very likely, as it would be very anticlimatic. the "and even myth is long forgotten before the age that gave it birth come again" part would be a bit lame if it meant that at some point the whole universe was wiped out and everything was restarted from hydrogen dust. of course there can be no memories left. And there's much less point in rand saving the world if the world would be destroied anyway at some point in the future. We could just let it be destroied now and save some time.

Another possibility is that someone fabricated all the evidence. Someone in the far future will reproduce all the experimental evidence pointing to our universe having 15 billion years, starting from putting all the fake old bones in the right geological strata to recreating the background cosmic noise. and scattering the galaxies in a way consistent with our knowledge of their formation. In this case I would really like to know how and why. yes, i realize "how" wouldd probably be answered "with the power" and "why" would be "because a foretelling told them to do it", but still.

Any idea in how all this could connect?

[Ryan]

My opinion is that, while it's fun that the WoT is set in our world (and as far as I know, it's the only fantasy that is), the connection doesn't hold up to close scrutiny. I doubt RJ put much effort into that aspect of his worldbuilding, which, given that it has no plot significance and is only obliquely hinted at in a few places, makes sense.

(BTW, my favorite hint is the bit at the end of The Great Hunt. The Horn is blown, the heroes come back, and Rand feels he remembers them having different names in another time - and the names he lists are common names from our time.)

[Lady_Yasha]

Despite the few easter eggs I don't think it's set in our world. An Earth analogue yes, where maybe in one Age they developed similar things to ours and names were similar. Remember, Queen Elizabeth did not rule the world; she was only the monarch of England and Ireland. So maybe there are a few parallels but they happened differently.

Th world in WoT is created by the Pattern, there was no Big Bang and there is no end to the universe. The Creator designed the world and then left to go design other worlds far from Randland. There are parallel universes, we get that much from Moiraine's speech about the Dark One existing in multiple realities. Our world might have influenced Randland in the same way branching temporal possibilities do. You see a cupcake in a cafe, you either buy it or you don't but in the process you create two possibilities that, under string theory, both happen.

Our Elizabeth didn't conquer the world, Randland's made different decisions that lead to her known-world domination. The Pattern is a web of intricate threads, all woven by the Wheel like a gigantic loom, and as long as the Wheel turns there can be no beginnings and no ends to time.

[king of nowhere]

well, I always assumed tha the thing about elizabeth rulign the world is just the way the story got modified with time. she ruled approximately one third of the world population, but if successive ages have passed her name different, they may as well changed a bit her accomplishments.

Anyway, I like the idea that it is a parallel universe where things went mostly like in our world, but with some differences. It certainly makes more sense than everything else. Even if the evidence for big bang being planted an be a fascinating idea, at least for those who liked terry pratchett's "strata".

[Aethling]

I really do not have much of an issue with considering the WoT world as our own. It is supposed to be a cycle of rise and fall of civilizations. We have several instances of that in our own near history.

One thing that I have thought was telling is that Telamon's civilization was centuries ahead of the one Rand is in. Lanfear and the rest of the forsaken remember lightbulbs, airplanes, skysrapers, and other modern conveniences. I was reading last night where Alviarin was in disbelief about what Mesanna told her about elevators. Considering Rand's time is only just experimenting with steam power, that is a HUGE difference.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Aethling

[king of nowhere]

I don't really have an issue; I'm just overanalyzing

[Lady_Yasha]

I really do not have much of an issue with considering the WoT world as our own. It is supposed to be a cycle of rise and fall of civilizations. We have several instances of that in our own near history.

Neither do I, but it's good to present all the possibilities so someone who sits on the fence can look at the arguements and have a place to start investigating for themselves.

[frozndevl]

Actually, there are a number of books that are either directly or indirectly related to Earth as we know it. I think it is very straightforward that Randland is sometime after our current modern age. What has been said previously to me explained that, not to mention what RJ wrote.

Also, Lord of the Rings states in one of the Appendices (I think) that the hobbits eventually turned into us. Also, in the Sword of Truth Series, at end of the the most recent book they

send all of the non-magic people "The Pillars of Heaven" to an alternate land, aka Earth.

[happyman]

As others have said, lots of fantasy settings have explicit/implicit relationships to "our" world. One relatively prominent example which hasn't been mentioned yet is Shannara, which is essentially a post post-apocalyptic setting.

The usual conceit about how it fits depends on the setting. Sometimes science is right but incomplete. Other times it is just the local flavor of magic. Often, the author doesn't address it. Wheel of Time is the last one!

If you absolutely must fit it in I would go with "Like our world, except where impossible." This would mean that either in WoT, "our" age had our understanding of the world, and it was badly wrong on key points, or it was an age like our world, but slightly different in those areas where there is real conflict in cosmology. I prefer the latter.