Chronology

[mbg]

If I remember correctly, Brandon said somewhere that one Rosharan year is roughly equivalent to 1.1 Earth years, which would make Shallan about 19 and Jasnah around 37. Would that be right? I'm not a big math person, but I just guessed that you multiply a person's given age in the book by 1.1.

That would also make it a ~400 day year(not 500) As for second thing I think we should avoid "age conversions". The characters are only as old as the writer makes them, not as they would look/perceived in RL.

Anywho, I was thinking that Roshar's seasons couldn't be based on the planet's axial tilt or whatever if Shinovar is stable; otherwise Shinovar somehow defies those planetary factors and remains remarkably stable, at least, I think so. So that leaves the question, what is the cause of Roshar's seasons? Specifically, since I'm guessing it's the highstorms, what do they change that causes seasonal change?

It might be. However if I had to guess, based on the depth of Brandon magic systems and how it is intervened in to to the very "fabric" of this word/universe(i.e. his little spren / quantum mechanics reference) I'd bet it is magic

Edited November 21, 2012 by mbg

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

They've only got 20 hours in a Roshar day and Roshar hours are about two and a half minutes shorter than Earth hours. The math works out surprisingly well.

The 1.1 Earth to Roshar year conversion was given by Peter and Brandon, we didn't just make it up. (Edit: I'm wrong here.)

I'm pretty sure that Roshar (the planet) is in the same solar system as the planet from The Silence Divine, so at least some of the planetary rules we know should apply. I do think the majority of the seasons are the result of a magical influence and highstorms.

Edit: The Silence Divine, not White Sand

Edited November 22, 2012 by Cheese Ninja

[Windrunner he/him]

Do you remember where you got these facts? They'd make awesome additions to the Roshar page, if I'm remembering right we don't have them yet.

[RenegadeShroom]

Do you remember where you got these facts? They'd make awesome additions to the Roshar page, if I'm remembering right we don't have them yet.

Here's the source. I think that's the source, anyway, it's what a bit of Googling got me.

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

Here's the source. I think that's the source, anyway, it's what a bit of Googling got me.

Crap, maybe I did make up the 1.1 conversion then... I just really liked the simplicity of it: 1.1*24*365*60/500/20=57.816 Earth Minutes to a Roshar Hour

Still, Peter did say 20 hours a day, and that the hours were a minute or two shorter than ours. And Brandon and Peter both said the years were a bit longer than ours, so I'm not making up that bit. The 500 day calender is established.... Death Quote Epigraphs Dated Here's a thread on here where FireArcadia figured out the names for each day in the Vorin calender: Calender thread. He even made a google spreadsheet: Calender Dates The archeologist (Harakeke) who translated the Navani's notebook pages also did a google spreadsheet for the chronology: Roshar History

Edited November 22, 2012 by Cheese Ninja

[RenegadeShroom]

Crap, maybe I did make up the 1.1 conversion then... I just really liked the simplicity of it: 1.1*24*365*60/500/20=57.816 Earth Minutes to a Roshar Hour

I think you're right in that it's about 1.1, though. If I'm honest, I'm not too good at maths, but I tried to calculate it as best I could. . . :

• Earth year = (60 * 24) * 365 = 525600 minutes
  
• Rosharan year = (58.5 * 20) * 500 = 585000 minutes ¹
  
• 1.1 Earth year: (365 / 10 = 36.5) + 365 = 401.5 days
  
• So: (60 * 24) * 402 = 578880
  

¹ = I took the 1-2 minutes shorter comment to be 1.5 minutes for the sake of the equation.

Now, I think that those two numbers are pretty close, so the assumption is correct, since if you round it to two digits instead of three, you'll end up with 1.1 rather than 1.2, correct?

Edited November 22, 2012 by InsurrectionistFungus

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

You're making it slightly more difficult than it needs to be: 5850/5256=1.1130, that's for a minute and a half less per hour. To be precise, I didn't make up the 1.1, I only made up that 1.1 was the exact measure, which is about 57m50s per hour. They're pretty close either way. Since the "minute or two less per hour came from Peter, that should be fine.

[Windrunner he/him]

Thanks Cheese Ninja, this is good stuff to have!

[CabbageHead he/him]

Countries located near the equator have no major variations in weather; temperature is generally high all year round. Shin could benefit from the same with the rest of Roshar suffering the effects of the highstorms.

That is generally true, yes. One small nit-pick with it is that countries outside equatorial regions do have variations, which change patterns of rainfall, even if temperatures are relatively stable. Hence the monsoons that happen in hot countries on a seasonal basis. But yes, equatorial regions have a fairly stable climate, and I didn't think of that.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

if you look at the map of Roshar (the one just before the prelude), it's in the southern hemisphere, and there are latitude lines indicating that the equator is just north of the Reshi Island. Also, Shinovar is at 30-40 degrees south, so theoretically it should have the same seasonal variation as the area between Florida and Northern California.

Come to think of it, we still don't know if the relative day/night lengths change with the seasons (which would indicate a seriously erratic axial tilt).

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

Can anyone help me figure out the passage of time in Way of Kings? It feels like only a month or two for Kaladin, a few months for Shallan, and just a few weeks for Dalinar...

I think it might help to keep track of some of the highstorms we see.

1st highstorm. Kaladin in the Slave Wagon.

Kaladin joins Bridge 4.

How long had he been with Bridge Four now? Two weeks? Three? An eternity?

Of the twenty-five men who had survived his first bridge deployment, twenty-three were now dead. Two had been moved to other bridge crews because they’d done something to please Gaz, but they’d died there. Only one other man and Kaladin remained. Two out of nearly forty.

2nd highstorm. Chapters 9 and 11. There's some new crew added to Bridge 4, then Syl leaves, there's a bridge run that isn't described in detail, the other survivor from his first day dies during the bridge run, and then later that day a highstorm, Kaladin despairs, goes to commit suicide, Syl stops him without realizing it. Kaladin finds new resolve. End of Part One.

Dalinar Kholin was going mad. Whenever a highstorm came, he fell to the floor and began to shake. Then he began raving in gibberish. Often, he’d stand, blue eyes delusional and wild, swinging and flailing. Adolin had to restrain him lest he hurt himself or others.

There was a highstorm the night before Dalinar, Adolin, and Elhokar's chasmfiend hunt.

So it seems like the Adolin/Dalinar and Kaladin chapters of 12-17 all take place on the next day, but it's possible that Kaladin's chapters sometime before the others, the day after some other highstorm. Chapter 18 is some time in the next week.

“I’ve been meaning to speak with you, son,” Dalinar said. “About the hunt last week.”

Adolin says Dalinar has visions every highstorm.

3. There's another highstorm in chapter 18. And in 19 Dalinar say that it's his 12th vision and that it's been going on for a few months. Either he didn't initially have them every highstorm, or despite highstorms being described as 'happening every few days', it's actually slightly less often than that.

“Unfortunately, no. It happens during every highstorm. He raves and thrashes about, and afterward claims to have seen things.”

Chapter 21 actually takes place the day after chapter 17, so might 18-19 actually happen after 21. (Kaladin)(20 was a flashback.)

Chapter 22 is 2 days after 18 and 19. (Dalinar and Adolin)

23 is the same day as 21, it's when Kaladin starts gathering knobweed reeds.

26 Dalinar and Adolin capture the gemheart from a pupating chasmfiend.

27 is 2-3 days after 23, Kaladin sells the harvested knobweed sap for a skymark.

It had been two more long days. Daytime spent working and training—Teft and Rock now practiced with him—evenings spent at the first chasm, retrieving the reeds from their hiding place in a crevice and then milking for hours. Gaz had seen them go down last night, and the bridge sergeant was undoubtedly suspicious. There was no helping that.

I think it may be three, since the implication is that they had spent two more full days doing stuff, and that this is the next day.

28 is shortly after 26, Dalinar refers to the events of 22 as 'the other day'. He also refers to the chasmfiend hunt with Elhokar as "a few weeks back". Jasnah refers to Shallan has her new ward. Dalinar decides to tell Adolin of his decision to step down the next morning.

30 is Kaladin, he's united the bridge crew.

Bridge Four ran by. A month ago, Gaz wouldn’t have believed this possible. A group of bridgemen, practicing? And all it seemed to have cost Kaladin was a few bribes of food and some empty promises that he would protect them.

“We need to work on that set-down,” Kaladin said. “But overall, I’m impressed. Two weeks and you’re already working together as well as some teams I trained for months. I’m pleased. And proud. Go get something to drink and take a break. We’ll do one or two more runs before work detail.”

It was stone-gathering duty again, but that was nothing to complain about. He’d convinced the men that lifting the stones would improve their strength, and had enlisted the few he trusted the most to help gather the knobweed, the means by which he continued to—just barely—keep the men supplied with extra food and build his stock of medical supplies.

Two weeks. An easy two weeks, as the lives of bridgemen went. Only two bridge runs, and on one they’d gotten to the plateau too late. The Parshendi had escaped with the gemheart before they’d even arrived. That was good for bridgemen.

32 is when Lopen joins and the failed Side Carry.

34 is Kaladin strung up for the highstorm, probably either the same or next day from 32.

In chapter 40 Kaladin is told it's been 10 days and 2 bridge runs since the highstorm.

43 seems to be the next day.

46 is another highstorm. Kaladin rides the storm. Shen joins Bridge 4.

The buds were a deep crimson. It was Chachel, third day of the week. The slave markets would show new wares. That would mean new bridgemen. Kaladin’s crew was in serious danger. Yake had caught an arrow in the arm during their last run, and Delp had caught one in the neck. There’d been nothing Kaladin could do for him, and with Yake wounded, Kaladin’s team was down to twenty-eight bridge-capable members.

That tells us the day of the week that a lot of chapters took place on, but not necessarily the week or the month. Also, Adolin gives Kaladin an emerald chip.

49 is another Kaladin chapter, but not sure how long has passed.

52 We finally see Dalinar again.

The three were alone in Dalinar’s sitting room, awaiting the advent of the day’s highstorm. It had been one week since Dalinar had informed his sons of his intention to step down as highprince.

Only a week has passed since chapter 28. There's a highstorm tonight. (Feverstone Keep)

53 Kaladin chapter, Dunny dies.

54 Dalinar sees Wit at the Feast, Wit (Hoid) says he'll be leaving for a while. Dalinar proposes that he and Sadeas ally.

55 One week since Dunny died. Kaladin sees Dalinar join Sadeas's troops in battle during a bridge run. Same day, they forage in the chasm. Chapter 46 is described as "weeks ago".

Kaladin was more taken aback by the fact that this city—which he had flown over in his dream weeks ago—was actually real.

They start shooting arrows into the bottom of bridges with bags of high value spheres attached to them.

56 Dalinar saves Sadeas in battle.

57 At least a week or two since 55.

He had recovered the newest pouch of spheres they’d stuck to the bridge with an arrow. This was the fourth time they’d done that, and had recovered them each without incident.

The only times they could collect those spheres would be during bridge runs, and those happen anywhere from once a day to once a week. Probably the same day as Dalinar's chapter 56, but don't know if we can be sure. Kaladin notices that he can use Stormlight, and has another crisis of faith. He meets Hoid. On a side note:

“And what is cleverness?”

“I…” Why was he having this conversation? “I guess it’s the ability to say and do the right things at the right time.”

The King’s Wit cocked his head, then smiled. Finally, he held out his hand to Kaladin.

Ties into Hoid's monologue in the epilogue. I'm not sure what Hoid has been doing for the past few weeks, if he's been on the Shattered Plains the whole time while no longer working as the King's Wit.

58 I think maybe we don't see all of Dalinar's visions:

Dalinar’s eyes lingered on Navani, drinking in her violet dress, her mature beauty. She’d recorded his most recent visions without complaint, and seemed to have forgiven him for throwing her out of his rooms so sharply.

Dalinar blinked. Just several weeks ago, Elhokar had been indignant when Dalinar had merely mentioned the idea of turning back. What had changed?

This is referring to chapter 18.

60 is Dalinar's vision of Nohadon. 61 is a few hours later.

62 is when Kaladin starts wearing the Parshendi carapace to act as a decoy. Dalinar saves Bridge 4 from some Parshendi archers after the initial assault.

63

Ten days, with six bridge runs, had allowed Kaladin and his team to perfect their method. Five men to be decoys with five more in the front holding shields and using only one arm to support the bridge. Their numbers were augmented by the wounded they’d saved from other crews, now strong enough to help carry.

63-73 are all on the day of the Battle at the Tower.

I'm still not entirely sure about Dalinar, but it looks like Kaladin spent at the very most, 2 months on the Shattered Plains. If new Bridgemen are only added on Chachel, that means there was either 15 or 20 days between chapters 9 (Kid that reminds him of Tien joins and immediately dies) and 32 (Lopen joins), and another 15 days between 32 and 46 (Shen joins). Then another few weeks between 46 and 55, then maybe another week or two before 61, and then 10 days between 62 and 63. So it's probably actually closer to a Roshar month and a half.

[Elwynn]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al9mpDUN_8rSdGZIcU1DbFJ1amRLb2l6UVZwRWtEQ3c&authkey=CPyvzssM

*shutters*

It was done quite a while ago to give reference to some major events and the passage of time.

I didn't go through the whole post though, was that what you're looking for?

Edited March 7, 2013 by Elwynn

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

I actually linked that same spreadsheet two posts ago. I'm not concerned about ancient Roshar history, I just want to know how many weeks and months have passed for all of the main characters in Way of Kings.

[Elwynn]

lol, glad I read the posts now. Was about to link Harakeke's timeline as well.

It's rough going to try and do that, but you did come up with a similar guess at the length of time in that thread. So you can't be far off.

[Aethling he/him]

You are also assuming that the different nations and countries all use the same calendar. Even today, there are countries that use alternate calendars with different starting dates. It is relatively recent history that Europe was working off of multiple calendars. Some historic figures have multiple dob depending on which calendar was used by the writer. Newton is a famous example of this. Heck, even two branches of the "Catholic" church use different calendars.

For all we know, the info we have been given by Brandon may only apply to certain cultures within the book. I don't see it all that farfetched that the Shin and Alethi people use completely different systems. One may use a solar calendar, but the other a lunar calendar, or even one base off of a natural event such as the weeping as the above quote seems to say. Now, it would be funny if the Parshendi, Shin, and Alethi all used different calendars. That would send our theorists spinning off into thought.

[Meg]

Again I've found something that confuses me.

Shallan says in Chapter 29:

“Or about sitting in an alcove reading about a five-year-old murder.”

Everyone else in TWoK speaks of the assassination of Gavilar as "six years ago."

Did I miss something? Is it a typo? Do I do hair-splitting again?

 

You are also assuming that the different nations and countries all use the same calendar. Even today, there are countries that use alternate calendars with different starting dates. It is relatively recent history that Europe was working off of multiple calendars.

You're right about this but at least the Shin seem to have the same calendar:

 

“You couldn’t trade me a soldier, could you?” Vstim asked as they waited.

“They cannot be sold to an outsider, I am afraid.”

“But there was that one you traded me…”

“It’s been nearly seven years!” Thresh said with a laugh. “And still you ask!”

I'm sure that fits with the other time designations.

[Leuthie]

That's Shallan speaking of Jasnah, right? I just considered it an approximation. Not knowing exact dates right now, 6 years is rounding up, 5 years is rounding down.

[Meg]

Can anyone help me figure out the passage of time in Way of Kings? It feels like only a month or two for Kaladin, a few months for Shallan, and just a few weeks for Dalinar...

I think it might help to keep track of some of the highstorms we see.

 

 

That question about how much time was spent during "The Way of Kings" piqued myself too. I apologize that I couldn't really follow your post so I tried to approach that problem in another way.

 

One thing itched me since I've read it: 

 

 

But I will say that the "XX years later/ago" chapter timestamps in the book are only accurate to half a year. (Except for the eight months one.)

Also, "ago" is a moving target based on the timeline of the surrounding chapters.

 

Peter in the TWG Archive Thread

 

 

My thoughts: 

 

Chapter 1 (5 years later [after Gavilar's death]) == Chapter 47 (1 year ago) == Chapter 51 (1 year ago)

That matches with the generally given "six years on the Shattered Plains" (5 + 1 = 6).

 

And: 

 

Chapter 1 (5 years after Gavilar's death) --> Chapter 2 (8 month later) --> Chapter 47/51 (1 year ago) 

 

Chapter 2 is when Kal was assigned to Bridge Four, this is -- in my opinion and understanding -- the beginning of the main story of TWoK (for me Prelude, Prologue, Interludes and Epilogue are sort of additional information). Under this premise Chapter 2 to 75 span two month (1 year - 8 month = 2 month) (eventually a bit more), at least for the people on the Shattered Plains. 

 

I've left Shallan more or less aside but I think her (and Jasnah's) timespan in Kharbranth proceeds simultaneous.  

 

Chapter 8 reads: 

 

The man who had killed Jasnah's father nearly six years before -- ...

 

 

And in Chapter 6 Kaladin thinks: 

 

 

Around them spread the signs of an army long settled; this war had been going on since the old king’s death, nearly six years ago. 

 

 

This is all but the same wording what makes me think that Shallan arrived in Kharbranth around the same time when Kal became a bridgemen. 

 

I'd like to dig deeper but not today.

 

 

PS: If sailing is the "normal" way to travel from Kharbranth to the Shattered Plains I would not be surprised if Jasnah and Shallan will share one ship with Szeth (except Taravangian has other ways to get Szeth to the Shattered Plains). 

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

The problem with "xx years ago" is always going to be people rounding up and down a few months worth of time.  When the majority of the book takes place in a 2 month span, this makes it really difficult to get a useful timeframe from those statements.  I'm sorry my post was confusing, it's partially the nature of the book, but partially my fault as well.

 

To simplify the main points:

1. It's tempting to think of the different PoV scenes as happening consectutively or simultaneously, but there are instances where this is definitely not the case.

1a. This happens most often at the beginning of one of the "Parts", since a character that hasn't had any PoVs yet will need to catch up to the rest. (examples: From the end of Part 1 'Chapter 9' to the end of Part 2 'Chapter 27', only a week passes for Kaladin.  On the other hand, a few weeks pass for Dalinar.  Dalinar and Adolin don't have any PoV chapters in Part 3, only a week passes for them between parts 2 and 4.  For Kaladin, Part 3 covers at least 4 weeks, and possibly as many as six or seven. I wouldn't go any higher than that.)

2. It easy to overlook the actual amount of time that has passed for Dalinar, since he has a vision every highstorm, but we only see four of them, and the others aren't described.  There is at least one highstorm a week, so Dalinar has had at least 10 visions over the course of his PoV chapters.

3. At the most, 2 months (100 days) have passed for Kaladin between his arrival on the Shattered Plains and the end of the book.  At a minimum, I'd say a month and a half. (75 days)  For Dalinar, I would guess it's between 55-90 days from his first PoV to the end of the book.

 

Yeah, I hope Szeth is on the same boat as Jasnah and Shallan, it seems like too good an opportunity for interactions to pass up.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Cheese Ninja

[Meg]

 I'm sorry my post was confusing, it's partially the nature of the book, but partially my fault as well.

 

 

At first: This was not (!) your thing, it's my lack (of getting in - is this understandable?). There is really no need for you to say sorry.

 

Second: For short: Thanks a lot for giving me more food to think about.

[blackmagic3 he/him]

I wanted to make a point, everyone here doing calculations is basing them on the assumption that the rules of our universe eg. Gravitation, Time dilation, Speed of light, are the same in the cosmere.

[Senor Feesh]

Pretty sure Word of Brandon exists that apart from realmatics, real-world physics apply

[Elwynn]

BS has stated that Roshar has less gravity than we do, it's one of the things that helps chasmfiends grow so large with an exoskeleton/carapace (Besides the gemheart).

 

Don't remember him saying anything about speed of light or such, but he has spoken about the rotation being different, hence  the different year.

[Senor Feesh]

Found it:

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=949#3

 

Doesn't specifically state about the speed of light; however he does confirm that the same rules of particle physics apply.

 

So whilst planets can have different gravity/rotation/tilt etc., the general rules of physics should still apply (unless overruled by Realmatics).

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

I wanted to make a point, everyone here doing calculations is basing them on the assumption that the rules of our universe eg. Gravitation, Time dilation, Speed of light, are the same in the cosmere.

What calculations would change if any of those were diffferent?  It's possible that time passes differently between one Cosmere planet and another, because of the effects of time dilation (This is true in our own universe as well, faster moving and higher gravity areas experience time at a slower rate, but I'm not sure if there is an appreciable difference in habitable zones.), but it is also likely that for simplicity's sake, time passes at the same rate for each of them.

 

BS has stated that Roshar has less gravity than we do, it's one of the things that helps chasmfiends grow so large with an exoskeleton/carapace (Besides the gemheart).

 

Don't remember him saying anything about speed of light or such, but he has spoken about the rotation being different, hence  the different year.

Nitpicking here, rotation would be the length of the day. A Roshar day is 4/5 of an Earth day.  The time it takes for a planet to make a full revolution around its star is the length of its year. (For us at least, Roshar 500 day year length might be caused artificial means, Weepings are too consistent to be entirely natural.) (Roshar year ≈ 1.1 Earth years)