Alonin he/him Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 So first, how on earth did a peaceful, agragarian society produce a monstrous, killing machine like Szeth? Second, Szeth is a surgebinder. How did he become one in a part of the world where the highstorms don't affect much, and stone and stormlight is sacred? Third, is Szeth merely bound by personal choice to the oathstone, or is he forced to obey the holder of it? I have a theory on this one. Szeth had a spren like Kaladin, but in turn, it was bound to the oathstone. So, Szeth made an oath that he would obey the bearer of the stone, and his honorspren binds him to it. If he breaks that promise, he loses his bond to the spren, and is no longer a surgebinder. Fourth, Szeth was fairly certain that if he died, the shin stone shamans would be able to recover his shardblade. How could they, if it is really hard to defeat a shardbearer? what crazy powers would they have to overcome that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Third, is Szeth merely bound by personal choice to the oathstone, or is he forced to obey the holder of it? I have a theory on this one. Szeth had a spren like Kaladin, but in turn, it was bound to the oathstone. So, Szeth made an oath that he would obey the bearer of the stone, and his honorspren binds him to it. If he breaks that promise, he loses his bond to the spren, and is no longer a surgebinder. While Brandon RAFO'd the Szeth & the Oathstone question, I think it's just honor. For one thing, he thinks about disobeying the oathstone towards the end of the book. In one of his interludes, however, he mentions that if he disobeys the holder of his oathstone, then his soul will vanish, instead of being condemned to eternal torture. Brandon has pretty much said yes that Szeth's surgebinding doesn't require a spren. I think he gave the asker of the question a gold star...Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straff Venture he/him Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 While Brandon RAFO'd the Szeth & the Oathstone question, I think it's just honor. For one thing, he thinks about disobeying the oathstone towards the end of the book. In one of his interludes, however, he mentions that if he disobeys the holder of his oathstone, then his soul will vanish, instead of being condemned to eternal torture. Brandon has pretty much said yes that Szeth's surgebinding doesn't require a spren. I think he gave the asker of the question a gold star...Right? Correct. And the way you have put that reminds me of the Heralds' fate while between Desolations. Maybe there's a connection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) Correct. And the way you have put that reminds me of the Heralds' fate while between Desolations. Maybe there's a connection? Speaking of the heralds, in one of Dalinar's visions (the Nohadon one, I think), it is mentioned that people forgot the Heralds between desolations; if this is true, then that might be evidence for the parshmen are voidbringers theory; if they could forget the heralds, they could forget the cause of the desolations, right? Anyway, I still don't want to believe that parshmen are the voidbringers. I personally prefer the other theory, but this is more evidence towards that one. Edited October 27, 2012 by Zenith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straff Venture he/him Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Speaking of the heralds, in one of Dalinar's visions (the Nohadon one, I think), it is mentioned that people forgot the Heralds between desolations; if this is true, then that might be evidence for the parshmen are voidbringers theory; if they could forget the heralds, they could forget the cause of the desolations, right? How can they forget the Heralds between Desolations if present Vorinism mentions them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayden Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 How can they forget the Heralds between Desolations if present Vorinism mentions them? Its easier to keep information alive when 9 out of 10 people arent being exterminated by Desolations. Vorinism came afterwards. Probably from just after the Oathpact was broken. Could be they tried before but remember during the desolations, man was fairly primitive. Truth is we dont know how big a gap there was between each. Could be that this 4,500 gap is normal. From what we see in Dalinar's visions, mankind went from pretty much Stone/Bronze age to Early Medieval. But it could be that the reason humans on roshar didnt excel was that everytime they made progress they were all but wiped out and sent back to barebones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Truth is we dont know how big a gap there was between each. Could be that this 4,500 gap is normal. From what we see in Dalinar's visions, mankind went from pretty much Stone/Bronze age to Early Medieval. But it could be that the reason humans on roshar didnt excel was that everytime they made progress they were all but wiped out and sent back to barebones. That makes a lot of sense. However, I don't think this gap is normal; Honor mentions that Odium is letting humanity fight itself, it would probably happen in a lot longer time period than the normal desolation. They probably would also have been at the current level of tech if they had this amount of space between. ...We need stormlight 2. One. Year. >_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 probably the time between desolations was less than the 4,5k years we have in the book after the last. odium wanted humans to grow complacent, so it makes sense that he waited longer. But I think at least one century has to pass between desolations for humans to repopulate. less than that, and mankind would have depleted its numbers at every desolation, ultimately falling. How did the peaceful shin produce szeth is a good question. dude is nothing but honorable, so he would not have broken the rules of his people. yet he did, in such a horrible way that he was made truthless. and how did he discover he was surgebinder? there is no stormlight in shinovar. he has to have traveled outside before, but how all that happened? i remember brandon mentioning book 4 will be szeth's book, so will have to wait until then. 4-5 more years. damnit! where is a cadmium bubble when you need one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 If I'm remembering correctly, I think book 3 is Szeth and 4 is Navani. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 If I'm remembering correctly, I think book 3 is Szeth and 4 is Navani. Yes. Szeth book=unmeasureable win. Szeth is an AMAZING character, or well, interesting, at least. I'm not quite sure how I feel about a Navani one, though...Maybe she knows what the glowy back sphere is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Not really interested in that so much. Firstly I want to know about her relationship with Gavilar, which is hinted to have been bad. I think it's likely that her flashbacks will involve her courting Dalinar and Gavilar and choosing between them. What I really want to see is a lot from the POV of an artifabrian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperity he/him Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 If I'm remembering correctly, I think book 3 is Szeth and 4 is Navani. Really? I figured Dalinar's would be 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Dalinar has been moved to book 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 That is really, really sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straff Venture he/him Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 One of my curses is that I always enjoy the POVs that have the fewest chapters, bar Kaladin. I love Szeth so it would be great to get a book for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradel he/him Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 So Szeth has two choices; disobey and have his soul vanish, or obey and be condemned to eternal torture. Does the "eternal torture" ring a bell with anyone else? Could the Shin know or have known in the past what happened to the heralds in between desolations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayden Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Hmm, makes you wonder if one of the Heralds rules in Shinovar, They might see something very wrong about him being able to surgebind without a Spren and because of that damned him as Truthless? Edit: Assuming that is, that the Heralds might be able to surgebind without a spren and hate him for it as it might remind them or bad times. Edited October 30, 2012 by Cayden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dionysus Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Hmm, makes you wonder if one of the Heralds rules in Shinovar, They might see something very wrong about him being able to surgebind without a Spren and because of that damned him as Truthless? Edit: Assuming that is, that the Heralds might be able to surgebind without a spren and hate him for it as it might remind them or bad times. My best guess as to why Szeth is truthless comes from the following passage: "He had heard that the Voidbringers could hold it (Stormlight) in perfectly. But, then, did they even exist? His punishment declared that they didn't. His honor demanded that they did." My conclusion is that Szeth has seen a Voidbringer and tried to expose the Voidbringer. This led to him being punished. Possible implication being that there are Voidbringers associated with the leadership of Shinovar. Another possible interpretation is that Szeth used a shardblade to attack a Voidbringer. We know taking up a weapon makes one in the lowest of classes in Shinovar, could taking up a shardblade lead to being Truthless and no one believed his justification for doing so. Edited October 30, 2012 by dionysus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozndevl Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Maybe he realized that the Voidbringers are the heads of Stone Shamanish, and he realized this and utilized one of the revered Shardblades to cut down one of the leaders who was Voidbringer. Since the Voidbringer was in charge of the Shamans and the order had convinced the rest of Shin over the span of 4500 years that Voidbringers don't exist, Szeth was punished as Truthless for merely picking up a weapon and striking another. As for why the Stone Shamans are such a martial order, maybe it is to allow the armies of the Void to have some highly skilled soldiers versed in the arts of Surbebinding (or Void-binding?). Edited October 31, 2012 by frozndevl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Fusion he/him Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 That makes sense, the shin would have to unite together in the end to take on their own leaders and break from freedom to help fight against the voidbringers in the desolations. I think that kaladin and his lot are going to get a hold on szeths oathstone, them or odium, at some point and use it to fight the desolations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC11 he/him Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Seeing as the thread has been necroed already I shall weigh in I personally think that's Szeth's religion and his beliefs about his soul stemming from that are what keeps him bound to the stone. It is his last connection to his homeland and people so he may just not be physically able to bring himself to break that. I also think that the Shin are not quite so peaceful as they would have us believe, sure their warriors are slaves, but whose to say they don't have some hidden assassin class to solve conflicts before they start? I personally think Szeth had the shardblade inflicted upon him as a punishment alongside his exile. As to the Desolations, I think they probably didn't come at regular intervals, some closer to others, some farther apart. Odium was probably out world hoping and shard killing in between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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