Hoid & the Heralds

[hogiewan]

Is it possible that:

1) Hoid was the original holder of Adonalsium itself

2) The Heralds are holders of the splinters of Honor and that the oathpact was an agreement that treated them as 1 entity alloing them to bind odium to the rules? Also is it possible that the Honor blades ARE their shards of honor and the other shardblades/plates are made from smaller splinters of Honor??

Any supporting/contradicting evidence?

Edited September 21, 2012 by hogiewan

[Millennium]

At this point, it's not clear exactly what Adonalsium was. It might not have been a thing that had a holder.

But I admit that ever since finally reading Liar of Partinel, I've been forced to wonder something similar: if it might take place so early in the Cosmere that Adonalsium as we know it didn't yet exist, and if it might end with the character we now call "Hoid" acting as something like a Shardholder for Adonalsium itself. At some later date, probably thousands of years later, Rayse and Bavadin either convinced Hoid to share the power only to betray him later, or else they outright stole it from him and something went wrong from even their perspective; however it happened, Adonalsium was Shattered.

There's no supporting evidence for this: it's just speculation on my part. But it would explain the grudges Hoid holds (betrayal and/or theft on a cosmic scale; note that this assumes he wrote The Letter), why he was at the Shattering of Adonalsium but didn't become a Shardholder (he was at the center of the blast), why he hasn't lived for the entire span of years that the Cosmere novels cover (as the predecessor to the Shardholders his body was probably not intact while he held Adonalsium), but also why he's still lived many more years than a human should (he's like an uber-Sliver).

IIRC, Brandon said outright once that Hoid isn't Adonalsium, but this explanation doesn't contradict that. He isn't Adonalsium, but he was Adonalsium.

[Observer]

I personally favor the belief that Adonalsium didn't have a holder, and simply had a mind due to the already-present conginitive aspects of the 16 pieces. Something wierd is definately going on with Hoid, but Adonalsiumholding isn't it.

[Cheese Ninja]

Is it possible that:

1) Hoid was the original holder of Adonalsium itself

2) The Heralds are holders of the splinters of Honor and that the oathpact was an agreement that treated them as 1 entity alloing them to bind odium to the rules? Also is it possible that the Honor blades ARE their shards of honor and the other shardblades/plates are made from smaller splinters of Honor??

Any supporting/contradicting evidence?

As for point 2: Tanavast/Honor existed as his own being at the same time as the Heralds. I don't think he died until some time after the Recreance. I think the Heralds have been around since the first Desolations. Tanavast probably Splintered himself to Invest into the Nahel-bond spren, Honorblades, and the Heralds, that certainly seems likely. As for normal Shardblades and Shardplate, Syl's dislike of Dalinar's Blade is used by a lot of people to argue that the Blades either aren't entirely of Honor, or have somehow been corrupted. It's not clear if Odium splintered Honor's shard the rest of the way after killing Tanavast, but it also seems likely.

[Straff Venture]

I'd agree with Observer. Adonalsium would have the whole spectrum of personality already by having all sixteen of the shards making them, which implies a host would not be needed

[Millennium]

I'd agree with Observer. Adonalsium would have the whole spectrum of personality already by having all sixteen of the shards making them, which implies a host would not be needed

That's true if the only thing Shards need a Holder for is to provide a mind. Are we sure that that's the only thing Shardholders do for their Shards?

[Observer]

That's true if the only thing Shards need a Holder for is to provide a mind. Are we sure that that's the only thing Shardholders do for their Shards?

Why not? The Shards can act on their own and manifest physically on their own, the only thing they don't do that we've seen possible of them is think, which humans can do for them quite nicely.