dewi he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 There was a thread a few months back about who would win a fight in the cosmere. Somebody had asked Brandon this at a signing I think, his replied was that basically a few people in the cosmere are immortal, and once we got down to these few it would be a pointless exercise, I don't know how to find WOB and its been a while since I read it. My question is, what would happen if one of these immortal persons held nightblood unsheathed, without an external source of investiture to replenish there inate. Would he kill them?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosted Flakes Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 We don't know enough about their immortality. There is hard immortality and soft immortality. For example, someone who holds a Shard of Adonalsium would essentially be immortal, but, then again, Odium has killed a few of those people. So Shards, despite their unfathomable power, are kill-able, and therefore not immortal. Even Adonalsium was Shattered. As far as I know, there are no hard immortals in the Cosmere. Either way, I hypothesize that an entity of sufficient power would be able to safely wield Nightblood unsheathed by overpowering him by force of will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 What Frosted Flakes suggested might be possible. However, if someone "overpowered" Nightblood's will, would he able to use all his fearsome powers anymore? He works by eating Investiture, so if one wanted to make him not do that, he would likely be crippled, at least as his power goes. My opinion is that Hoid (or any other functionally immortal person) simply would not pick Nightblood up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 My opinion is that Hoid (or any other functionally immortal person) simply would not pick Nightblood up. Nicrosil compounders might be able to wield Nightblood indefinitely with no inherent danger to themselves, so long as they sheath him before running out of investiture. That is assuming Feruchemical nicrosil works the way we presume it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Well, if they're really immortal Nightblood can't kill them. That is pretty much what being immortal means. Most likely they'd stop feeding him investiture at some point prior to dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Well, that's the difference between functionally immortal and just plain immortal. Let's take to examples. 1. The Christian God. He is immortal. Nothing can even come close to killing Him in his Godly form. 2. The Greek gods. They are functionally immortal, meaning that while they wouldn't normally die, they can be killed with enough work. Similar to the Elves from LoTR. In number 1, immortality is an inherent property, meaning that the thing in question just cannot be killed. Period. No question about it. In number 2 (and I realize this is not a perfect example), immortality is a theoretical. If this doesn't happen, or if that doesn't happen, this thing will be immortal. This, I believe, is what applies to those Cosmere characters. He doesn't say "immortal", he says "functionally immortal" or "practically immortal". It's more of a "these puny humans don't have enough power to kill me" than a "I can't be killed at all" statement. With Hoid or any other Cosmere character, I believed that immortality is a gained attribute. So if Hoid could pick up Nightblood and survive, I have it feeling it would be through some hack of a magic system, not because he physically cannot ever be killed. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewi he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 QUESTION Finally, and most importantly, if all your protagonists had an epic all out brawl, who would win? BRANDON SANDERSON Some of them are immortal, but that would kind of be cheating. If you let people who are immortal participate, it's going to very much favor someone like Hoid, who is really, really, really hard to kill. Of course, he would not be very good at offing anyone either, because of certain things in his past. It would be really futile when it got down to the last two. But if we take that out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewi he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 That is part of what prompted this thread, Also, do you think we can assume one of the 2 Brandon mentioned here is hoid? I'm not quite sure of this. Who would be the other one, if we are to take his meaning as there being 2 beings in the cosmere to have gained a greater level of immortality than any other. I would pure guess at it being kriss, you wouldn't become the most cosmere aware person and not take advantage of the knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I think he is implying that Hoid is one of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pifferdoo he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Hoid and the Recipient, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 yeah, hoid is funnctionally immortal in the sense that he has so many powers that there is no way a regular person is going to kill him. he's not immortal in the sense that he would not be able to win a darwin award if he tried. holding nightblood unsheated may just be one way of achieving that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Seriously?! Who just downvoted my post about immortality?! At least tell me what I said! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Seriously?! Who just downvoted my post about immortality?! At least tell me what I said! Dude, calm down. It's just a downvote. The rep systems doesn't matter in any way. I gave you an upvote to counter it. yeah, hoid is funnctionally immortal in the sense that he has so many powers that there is no way a regular person is going to kill him. he's not immortal in the sense that he would not be able to win a darwin award if he tried. holding nightblood unsheated may just be one way of achieving that. You know, Nightblood might be the one sure way to kill Hoid. Since it is a safe bet that Hoid's "immortality" is due to magic systems and their combined usage, draining him of his Investiture is potentially the only surefire way to kill him. Even Sprenblades pose him no threat. It would be interesting if he ever gets the chance to hold Nightblood. Outside of not being affected by the nausea, I'm not sure how that would go down. I'm confidant he wouldn't want to unsheath it, though. Edited February 19, 2015 by Blaze1616 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Dude, calm down. It's just a downvote. The rep systems doesn't matter in any way. I gave you an upvote to counter it. I'm not angry, I just don't understand why someone would downvote that. I have a feeling that I know exactly why, though. You know, Nightblood might be the one sure way to kill Hoid. Since it is a safe bet that Hoid's "immortality" is due to magic systems and their combined usage, draining him of his Investiture is potentially the only surefire way to kill him. Even Sprenblades pose him no threat. It would be interesting if he ever gets the chance to hold Nightblood. Outside of not being affected by the nausea, I'm not sure how that would go down. I'm confidant he wouldn't want to unsheath it, though.Exactly. That's what I've been trying to get at. I don't think that Hoid would EVER pick up Nightblood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) I'm not angry, I just don't understand why someone would downvote that. I have a feeling that I know exactly why, though. Exactly. That's what I've been trying to get at. I don't think that Hoid would EVER pick up Nightblood. I wish he would, I feel like if nothing else, a conversation between Hoid and Nightblood would be a thing of hilarious beauty. The world NEEDS it, it just doesn't know it yet. Edited February 19, 2015 by Slater 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) I don't think that Hoid would EVER pick up Nightblood. Which is a major shame. It would be so interesting to see how the different investitures interract with the sword. Would Nightblood consume metals in your stomach when you don't burn them, similar to burning aluminum? If one were an Elantrian, would holding Nightblood drain that? This then begs the question of whether you revert to a Reod Elantrian, or do you revert to not being an Elantrian? So many cool answers could be had from other people holding Nightblood... Edited February 19, 2015 by Blaze1616 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I wish he would, I feel like if nothing else, a conversation between Hoid and Nightblood would be a thing of hilarious beauty.YESSSSS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meg Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 We don't know enough about their immortality. There is hard immortality and soft immortality. For example, someone who holds a Shard of Adonalsium would essentially be immortal, but, then again, Odium has killed a few of those people. So Shards, despite their unfathomable power, are kill-able, and therefore not immortal. Even Adonalsium was Shattered. As far as I know, there are no hard immortals in the Cosmere. Either way, I hypothesize that an entity of sufficient power would be able to safely wield Nightblood unsheathed by overpowering him by force of will. I think that most of the "immortals" we saw yet are not really immortal but don't die by age. I believe that Hoid is such an immortal. But what about the Heralds. They "die" but then suffer from torture and they came back for every desolation. This might be the reason why their Honorblades don't stay in the Physical Realm when they "die". It seems to me that the only "really Immortals" we yet know of are the Heralds. (Did anyone ever ask what happens to a Herald if they were killed after the Last Desolation and after they left the Oathpact?) Dude, calm down. It's just a downvote. The rep systems doesn't matter in any way. If it wouldn't matter in any way it should be cast out. Though you are right that the reputation points shouldn't matter -- especially because it seems that most of them are given for role playing or other "games" -- it's nice to get points. And to be downvoted without any obvious reason is frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Seriously?! Who just downvoted my post about immortality?! At least tell me what I said! there are many peoople connecting with iphones or mobiles and accidentally downvoting people they meant to upvote because of misclick on the small screen. maybe that's the case. sometimes you read posts saying "i meant to upvote but i misclicked, moderators please fix that". some likely do not notice they downvoted. I'd say that's a possibility. otherwise, i reallly have no idea what could have been the offensive content of the post. but anyway, my experience here tell me that if a post contains content that is frowned upon by some particularly sensitive people, but the majority considers ok, if you'll get downvoted someone will upvote to compensate. so, no worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaladin he/him Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Which is a major shame. It would be so interesting to see how the different investitures interract with the sword. Would Nightblood consume metals in your stomach when you don't burn them, similar to burning aluminum? If one were an Elantrian, would holding Nightblood drain that? This then begs the question of whether you revert to a Reod Elantrian, or do you revert to not being an Elantrian? So many cool answers could be had from other people holding Nightblood... I just got the image in my head of an Elantrian unsheathing Nightblood while channeling the Dor. Couldn't they just leave the Dor on a "low burn" and wield Nightblood? That would be Awesome!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 If it wouldn't matter in any way it should be cast out. Though you are right that the reputation points shouldn't matter -- especially because it seems that most of them are given for role playing or other "games" -- it's nice to get points. And to be downvoted without any obvious reason is frustrating. Technically, if the system worked the way it is meant to, downvotes should be more common, as you would use it to show displeasure in a post (whether you thought they were rude, or you disagreed, etc.). As you say, that is not how it works. I've posted about this before, too. I think it is a bad thing that we treat downvotes as hostile attacks. Oh well, it is what it is, eh? I just got the image in my head of an Elantrian unsheathing Nightblood while channeling the Dor. Couldn't they just leave the Dor on a "low burn" and wield Nightblood? That would be Awesome!!! You bring up a good point, an Elantrian's Elantrian-ness is just the Dor flowing out through them. As such, Nightblood would be draining the Dor itself. I wonder just how much investiture the Dor holds? Does it constantly replenish at a rate fast enough to counteract Nightblood's increasing consumption rate? Is it theoretically possible for it to run out? So many questions... I think that most of the "immortals" we saw yet are not really immortal but don't die by age. I believe that Hoid is such an immortal. Though we do know Hoid can heal himself with Feruchemical gold, so physical wounds pose him no harm, I agree with you. To my knowledge, immortality in the Cosmere is more about not aging than it is about surviving a gaping wound in your chest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewi he/him Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 There is some great answers here guys, I think if we gather all the facts available to us we just don't know enough about the cosmere and how the magic systems work. I am a massive fantasy book fan and I really believe Brandon is going to take us on a roller coaster ride like no other author ever has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 I'd say that if anyone wielded Nightblood for a sufficient length of time they would be consumed. He eats Investiture. Everything out of the ordinary in the Cosmere is directly powered by Investiture. If he ate all of Hoid's Investiture then Hoid's 'immortality' would vanish and he would most definitely die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shard of Adonalsium Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 THOUGHTS. Hoid may be functionally immortal from Compounding Age as the LR or Ironeyes (Marsh) did? Atium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) THOUGHTS. Hoid may be functionally immortal from Compounding Age as the LR or Ironeyes (Marsh) did? Atium? Unfortunately, that's not really immortality. TLR needed an ever-increasing amount of atium to stay alive, because he kept getting older. He needs to tap 10 atium-years per year to turn from 40 to 30, but he needs to tap 20 atium-years per year to turn from 50 to 30 (and tapping does not pause your age), so when he's 1000 he needs to tap 970 atium-years per year to look 30. Eventually, there's just not enough atium to sustain your life anymore and you die. Hoid has a lot of Breath, though. Biological immortality in a can. I wonder if he has enough to reach the full stopping of age, though... his Breath aura is strong enough for perfect pitch, but isn't noticeable to people like Kaladin, so it's not clear if he's hiding the aura or not. Edited February 24, 2015 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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